How AAG does their shopping
 

How AAG does their shopping: EXTREME Couponing Edition!

1) They find a product they want.
2) They find a bunch of stores that sell it.
3) They hire a middleman henchman to go to one of the more expensive stores on their behalf to "offer to buy the product" at that store, but only if they lower their price to at least that of the cheapest alternative store offering the product.
4) If the store doesn't seem interested in the deal, then they threaten the store with "how unfortunate it would be" if "something" happened to their business, should the deal fall through.
5) Assert to the store employees that the above threat is just "folklore" and you're just trying to paint an accurate picture of their future.
6) Store employees wonder "why didn't AAG just go to the cheaper store to begin with?"
7) AAG desperately hopes their true intentions remain hidden.

AAG has enough cash to shop at any store they please.
Their couponing is an addiction that they acquired years ago.
It no longer has anything to do with money.
It is a demonstration of power, greed, and control.
Do not give them the satisfaction.
Do not allow yourself to continue to be a pawn in their game.
Stand for something.
Have value.

It's not greed, it's just good business. Good for shareholders and the people that care. The same argument is used for unions all the time, that they are "just about greed" and used to extort 100K salaries for menial jobs. A real union and real unity is needed to keep these forces from many any job a form of indentured slavery. Whether or not airline pilots have a real union or real unity is the real problem.

It's amazing how much power a customer has when they are the only one who shops at your store.

And when the customer owns the store.

How AAG does their shopping
 

It's not about Greed?!?!?

How AAG does their shopping
 

It's legal corporate terrorism. And they can stick it. I am willing to stand up to the bully on the playground, I just hope my fellow workers stand up as well.

My price is 175K, defined benefit retirement plan. I don't know if I'm worth it, but I won't fly for them for less.

GF

Thwart the criminal mafiosos!! Vote NO!!!!

Slavery, child labor, and a limitless workday were also good for business.

Also, it's like the exact definition of greed...

An excessive desire for more, well above and beyond what you need, which is already beyond what you have? When $2 billion in profits just doesn't quench your thirst. No, you can do better. Even if it requires taking from those who do need.

Amen! Well said...

You can use your own statement against you however. "An excessive desire for more, well above and beyond what you need," there are people who live quite well on less than 50k a year. In fact 50k puts you right at the mean national household income. It's all relative.

Spoken just like a true brownstreaker... Because professional pilots don't require more training, or have more responsibility than any of those people that live on less than 50k. Try living well on less than 50k in any large metropolitan area in California!

Funny you bring it up. I am from California. And have plenty of friends who live on 50k or less. The post I commented on was dealing with asking for more than you need. Not asking for what YOU think your worth.

Paid2fly,

It should be obvious that patis based on the supply of pilots and the demand for them, not at all related to the hazards, responsibility or invested funds. That's pretty much the history of the last decade at regionals. In other areas of aviation, employers are bidding up the price for experienced pilots--Asia, corporates here, etc.

GF

I was okay on less than 50k when single with no family. Try supporting a large family on 50k or less in LA or SFO... Unless you're taking government support, you'll be in poverty. If you, as a "professional pilot" think that's okay for you, so be it. I think it's totally unacceptable!

I never once in any of these posts talked about pilot pay. My comment was centered on what his definition of greed is and nothing more. YOU are talking about pilot pay.

Yes, I suppose greed is relative. Side note, I would welcome $50,000/year graciously, but my latest W-2 was half that. Fortunately, I don't have any significant debt, student loans, children, or live in an expensive city, so I get by ok.

Back to greed being relative. I suppose I'd be greedy if I walked down the street and stole some hobo's nickel stash. And compared to people living in some third world countries, and even some places in the US, my lifestyle might even be considered lavish! Hell, I have electricity, a refrigerator, cable TV, and internet. What was I complaining about again?

Mr. Parker, I'm doing just fine! Don't let me and my fellow pilots obstruct your opportunity for a multi-million $$$ bonus! That'd be greedy of us. I know you've been working hard with this merger, probably spending a lot of time "on the road" away from home, working long days/nights, dealing with all sorts of people complaining about this and that. And a lot is expected of you! You have a lot of responsibility in your hands, guiding the company to safe future.

Don't let these pilots take what is yours, Mr. Parker. They are just greedy sloths. Establish your dominance over them, and put them in their place. Show them they are are replaceable, and nothing more than a tool of of the company. Make them fear you. Fear is stronger than respect.

What is the average income of a college educated skilled professional in NYC, ORD, MIA and DFW? Answer- $260,000.

50k does put you at the average of uneducated welfare recipients and Walmart workers. Would you like fries with that?

Source on that statistic?

Average starting salaries for college grads.

I should have just been a Humanities major...

That is great for "starting" "college grads". This could be anyone with a basket weaving degree working as a manager at YMCA. I would compare people who have a minimum of a masters degree. The normal pilot earns a bachelors degree then has extensive flight training anywhere from 2-6 additional years. I would use this as your starting point. Look at doctors and lawyers. Both are specialized and skilled. Anybody with any degree can be a manager at best buy. That same manager can't just hop into a Jet with 99 other lives at stake or diagnose you with cancer. Same could be said about any doctor or lawyer. This is a specialized skill that takes extensive education and dedication. Also, i'm comparing NYC not Billings Montana.

Looks like you need to go back to school so you too can make 260,000 right out of college.
However......
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=77
So I will say it again. I ALSO think we as pilots should fight for more income. But maybe before you start crying you should look at where we already stand compared to other jobs. Even as an FO I make more than quite a few of my college educated friends. I also make less than quite a few of them those I make less than also don't have the earning potential I do.

Hence the world "specialized." I could go manage a best buy tomorrow.

Since you insist on comparing pilots to dr's think of regionals as residency.
Medical residency salary in USA

A resident physician in the United States receives an average annual salary ranging from between $41,526 – $62,856. In addition, a bonus of about $5, 000 will be credited to his or her account. In fact, a resident physician receives his or her total earnings ranging from between $41,699 – $62,647 per annum.

Or are residents not specialized?

lol you mad? There is no point trying to reason with you. "resident" or "flight instructing." I'm trying to help you rj guys out a little. I'll get back to my productive life. Have fun.

Some objective observations. First, your W-2 was 25K for the year if I read your post correctly. Let's not forget that you obviously AGREED to that wage. In other words, regardless of whether or not you think you deserve more pay, at present time you agree to exchange your skill set for said wages. Nobody is forcing you to stay where you are.

Second, you are greedy - because that is human nature and not something that only exists at the corporate level. No matter how much you end up making one day, I have a hard time believing you would ever turn down down a penny more.

Third, those big bonuses the "evil" airline execs give themselves every year are because pilots let them do it. The "this job is cooler than anything else I'm willing to fly jets for practically free" attitude is the reason airline managers can do what they do - you let them.

The two careers just don't fit to compare. Dr's spend much longer I school than pilots do. The felid is a lot more competitive. I am willing to bet you didn't apply to 10 flight schools before being accepted. You don't even have to have a 4 year degree to be a regional pilot. There are no 6 months to be a real Dr programs. I agree with you however in the fact this conversation has reached its conclusion.

Oh please...I know a god damn barback in NYC that makes $50 a year. No 121 pilot should be making less then a barback!

Chip,

As long as scads of pilots agree to wrk for less than a "barback" wages will be what they are. Companies shouldn't be expected to pay more than what individuals are willing to work for.

GF

Then negotiate for higher wages!

$50 a year? Bums can make that panhandling in Manhattan on a good day! :D

Right...the UN has better results with negotiations!

I, personally, did not let them. I do not have that kind of power or influence.

Pilots as a group, though, have indeed failed themselves to use the potential power they do have, if only they could collectively realize their strength in numbers and unity. And it is within management's best interest to perpetuate this.

Yes, to a varying degree, greed is surely a driving force of human nature. I don't deny that I would accept compensation above what I only "need," but I would NOT accept the RIDICULOUSLY over the top type of compensation we are talking about here, especially in the face of the current situation.

The heart of this matter is not unique to the airlines, but we are definitely one of the more drastic examples. There will always be "income inequality" but the SPAN of the spectrum in the US is growing and the gap between the uber rich and once middle class is widening at an alarming rate.

Do you comprehend the MAGNITUDE of the amount of money we are talking about here?

Who's side are you on? Are you okay with the current situation? Do you have anything constructive to contribute? Or should we just sit back, shrug our shoulders, and sigh "ah that's just business."