And neither do you when you shop around for the cheapest......fill in the blank. It is called consumerism and you know you do the same thing on a daily basis probably and don't give a second thought to any consequences for any other industry/service/etc... that isn't YOUR industry. It isn't the passengers fault the ticket prices aren't high enough. Last I checked - airlines were racking up some profits are they not?
Plane Travel: Airline Profits To Hit Record High | TIME.com

Yeah...it is the passengers fault :rolleyes:

I always think about my purchases and try to know a little about where I shop and support. Walmart nation is a problem mentality and we eat it up. Walmart sucks.

That is a good attitude - but rarely used I'd wager.
I recently got an email with a link to a YouTube video that was along the same lines about buying American made products basically.
If there are 3 gas stations on the corner and they all have three different prices - who would most chose - especially if you are this starving regional pilot we hear about who is living in their parent's basement and eating Raman?
How about the same two pizza places where the same $10 pizza is over a $1 more expensive due to different city taxes and both are on the way home from work?
Consumers shop. It isn't up to the consumer to fix pricing. If you're going to be mad at pricing - look inward at your own companies/industry.

If you understand global trade you would know that what's good for Wal-Mart is also good for the US. Wal-Mart is a retailer, not a manufacturer. It provides hundreds of thousands jobs for otherwise low- or no-income households, and sells good quality products at prices people can afford. The fact that they come from China means nothing more than if they had come from Mississippi.

If you expect to create more jobs in America, you'd better focus your attention on manufacturers, making them competitive with Chinese. In the meantime, thanks to Wal-Mart we have a lot more jobs here at home.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

Costco and Trader Joe's provide good quality retail jobs, Walmart not so much. So if there wasn't a Walmart you think people wouldn't shop? And these part time/no benefit jobs would just disappear? That makes no sense at all. Someone would still sell the goods and there is a chance it would be a quality retailer who provides better jobs than Walmart.

Except those who enjoy employer contributed health insurance, weekends, the 40 hour work week, a living wage, etc.
But keep trying ..

WalMart is the best friend the poor and unskilled person in this country has. Why do you think its parking lots are so crowded all the time?

Wow, this is over-the-top naive.

Walmart IS capitalism, but consider a few things:

I'm not sure if you've ever shopped at walmart, but most of what they have is *4 letter word*. They do crazy things like have the manufacturers make the plastic rubbermaid waste baskets thinner than you'd get at home depot. They strong-arm their suppliers to cut the cost to the point where it is not a "quality" product as you claim, it's nowhere near that. Plenty of american manufacturers hold out and refuse to make something they know is going to just fail in a week, but the entire purpose of walmart is to find someone that will, and sell the product. Then there's the issue of selection, which blows my mind. Due to work, I have to go back to the midwest where sometimes there's no alternative but to get some groceries in walmart (they drove out the other supermarkets or they never existed ). With a store that big, you'd think you'd find all kinds of stuff, from cheap to expensive, with selection that's "off the wall", but it's the opposite, they don't carry anywhere near the selection of a normal supermarket, they just put more of the same crap on the shelves in bigger boxes. It's been frustrating trying to find a certain sauce, spice, or whatever due to this.

You can pretend that walmart puts out "good quality stuff", but that's about as naive as it gets. Sure, "more jobs", but these jobs are subsidized partly by the government by requiring people to go on food stamps (walmart helps their employees do this). Is "more jobs" better than "good jobs"? Luckily we got plenty of regional airline jobs out there that provide "jobs"....except it seems those pilots are starting to get fed up with "just having a job" of indentured servitude.

I'm not sure what you are implying -- that Walmart has low prices? And that is good for the poor? Prices at Costco are lower per unit, the grocery store next door to my Walmart always beats Walmart's prices and their employees are treated much better. People think they are getting a good deal at Walmart, most of the time they aren't. How is that being the best friend of the poor? Trying to argue that Walmart is good for America is ridiculous.

He never said they put out good quality stuff. He only made the absolutely correct observation that Walmart provides the cheap China junk on the shelf that the majority of cost obsessive, short sighted American consumers clamor for.

It depends on the product. I was looking for sleeping bags the other day and noticed that the name brand, Coleman, was made in China while the “cheap”, and certainly less expensive, Ozark Trail (the Wal-Mart store brand) was made in the USA.
WalMart makes a variety of goods available to people of modest means that would not otherwise be available to them. That is a tangible and indisputable benefit.

Nobody at Wal-Mart makes minimum wage, its always higher then minimum (ok, sometimes not by much).

People shop there (just like they do with the airlines in purchasing tickets) because they have made the value judgement that a great price on a flat screen or a package of tube socks is worth it. You cannot blame Walmart for this. You blame the shoppers.

Here's a fun fact... If you work at Walmart, you're still a low income household.

There was a study done by a university... I'd have to look it up... But the findings were that the money Americans save by shopping at Walmart is mostly given back in the form of taxes to pay for federal aid for Walmart employees. It's not as cheap as it seems.

People like to beat the "providing jobs" drum, but if the job you're providing is substandard, you're not actually helping. I'd rather be unemployed and have my time to use to do side jobs/flip cars/whatever than work at Walmart. It's pretty easy to make more than minimum wage if you're creative.

Um, yes he did. Can't get more specific/direct than this:

Exactly!, It is not the passengers fault, it is greedy management that while they raise their compensation by %60+ per year ask the pilots for concessions or stagnation.

There is enough profit in the ticket and bag fees today to pay the pilots well even at the regional level and still show profit, heck some Regional are showing %6 in margins and that is really high.

If a regional can't show profits paying the pilots well (pilot cost is less than %1 of the ticket cost the passenger pays) then the business model and the contracts it accepts to fly are the problems not the cost of pilot pay. The cost for pilots is at a much lower level than acceptable already and should be at least %3-5 of the ticket.

Regional pilots are paid below minimum wage dividing the pay by the duty time and the airline industry is the only one getting away with it.

We not only need a new minimum wage law in pay per hour ($10) but also a minimum wage per month or per year for a full time employee and no one should be allowed to pay less than that for full time employees. If you work 60 hours a week instead of 40 like pilot do it should be paid a min of 1.5 of full time pay. Every hour you are not allowed/prevented to go home (on overnights etc.) and you are at the disposal of the company should be compensated in some way and not only by the ridiculous low per diem.

The times of slaves was supposed to be gone and in the past but it is alive and a reality in the US. Places like Great lakes should be closed and never be allowed to exist again.

It is time for greedy Regional managements to pay.

Wal-Mart has done more to boost the status of underprivileged workers in this country than a thousand government programs.

Remember: Wal-Mart issues job applications that are submitted voluntarily. Wal-Mart does not draft employees. These people, more than a million of them are not there under coercion or threat of harm if they don't like the conditions and want to leave (as should Regional pilots if they dislike it so much).

maybe not but... when the economy is bad and there is a lack of jobs available companies abuse that and workers are forced to take whatever job is available and accept pay and conditions below their dignity. They do it if they are not total garbage and prefer to live on welfare.

The ones taking these low paying jobs are people that wants to work and prefer to be a "slave" before being a burden to society.

These people need protection against Company greed. You can't tell them "Do not take the job", they do not have options.

While Wal-Mart is providing jobs for many, they tend to treat their employees much the way they treat their suppliers - as a means to an end. That end being Wal-Mart profits at whatever cost. It is voluntary to work at Wal-Mart, but often times they've driven out the competition. Many of those "created" jobs already existed before Wally World killed them. As for the argument that products coming from China means nothing more than them coming from Mississippi, it's just wrong. If those products came from Mississippi, they would be produced by workers in Mississippi, thus keeping more jobs in the US. Wal-Mart likes to buy from small suppliers, essentially enticing them to up their production, in some cases by a thousand fold. This initially results in increased supplier jobs. Then, they demand that this supplier reduce their asking price for their product by up to 3% per year (like they do with most suppliers). This continues until the supplier tells them to shove it, or they produce and sell the products for ever shrinking profit. Since Wal-mart is 80%+ of their business, if they don't sell to Wal-Mart, they have to reduce staff and sell machinery, etc. or just close down. (The Wal-Mart Effect: How the World's Most Powerful Company Really Works--and How It's Transforming the American Economy by Charles Fishman)

What does that all mean? It means Wal-Mart is a crappy company, that cares about their bottom line only, not their people and not their customer. Does that make them wrong? No. Does that make them souless? IMO, yes. I only comment because I've studied Wal-Mart a bit and don't like their practices and didn't like the arguments above. I also see parallels between Wal-Mart business practices and regional airline business practices. Supplier (pilot) beware.

I assume Walmart is not among the holdings in your retirement fund. Do you have it all stuffed in your mattress?

Unless Walmart is entirely family owned, they have to please hundreds of thousands of investors, whose only concern is the bottom line (and who are then allowed to pretend that they have nothing to do with the means used to obtain that bottom line).

The Walton family has as much money as the bottom 42% of America. They could afford to pay at least a little more.

"Sum Ting Wong -- I assume Walmart is not among the holdings in your retirement fund. Do you have it all stuffed in your mattress?"


I said they were souless and I didn't like their business practices, not that I was poor. I try to shop there only when I need to (like when I need groceries at 2am when I'm working nights and no one else is open), but their stock is strong and dividend growth from one year to the next is one of the best out there. They certainly know how to make money and I'm not going to pass up taking some of their profits, 'cause let's face it, they're a juggernaut that is here to stay. Not a moral decision, just a financial one.

They sell the same crap "higher" end places like Target sell.

Last year Walmart profited 11.3 billion! Wow, that's a lot of money!
That is from 10,500 stores world wide! Wow, that's a lot of stores!
That's 10.77 Million dollars profit per store. Wow, That is a lot of profit!
Walmart has 1,530,000 employees 600,000 of those are new each year so more than 1/3 of the employees have less than 12 months on the job. That's still a bunch of employees!
Walmart profited $738.56 off of each employee last year. That is just $61.55 per month, per employee. Not so much huh?

To increase benefits to employees by $1,000.00 per year, that is just $83.33 per month each, and keep these profit margins Walmart would have to lay off 25% of it's employees - that is 382,500 people losing their jobs.
The people that would be hurt the hardest would be new hires. Or Walmart could just close their doors. and put 1.53 million people out of work, for lack of profit.
Now that would be social justice!

Wal Mart pays better wages and has better terms and conditions for employment than it's competitors in the discount retail market.

That's why there is always a long line of applicants every time Wal Mart opens a new store. The applicants are people who are employed at Wal Mart competitors like Walgreens and Target. They want to get jobs at Wal Mart because Wal Mart is a better employer.

The sad truth is that wage scales in the discount retail industry are relatively low compared to other industries, but Wal Mart is a relatively higher wage scale employer in that sector.

Assuming a 2% rate of return on investments, the Walton family makes 2.894 billion dollars in income, annually. You could increase benefits to each employee in a sustainable way by about 1,900 bucks (around 15%) just by writing checks. Cut that to your 1000 dollars in your example, and you'd still have an annual personal income of 1.4 billion.

Lots of truth to this STW, I expect you to take a 50% paycut so the company can add more jobs. After all, having jobs is the most important thing...If I was the CEO, it would be a no brainer. That's kind of the problem with the airline industry, way too many jobs, way too many pilots, way too many planes, and way too many airlines providing air service to places that don't really demand the infrastructure and service. Sure, people will buy the tickets at a certain price, but at that price, everything else, like FO wages, suffers, but hey, they got jobs right? I guess the thing to learn from this is that there is ALWAYS demand, it's just a matter of figuring out how to meet and the trail of destruction you leave to make a product that can be offered at a price to meet that demand. I think many people will agree the cost in the long run is not worth it, but we are the "me" society and we want our stuff "right now", whatever the cost...

Just because the Walton family "is making plenty of money" is nobody's business but theirs.
All WalMart employees knew the pay scales when hired. If they dislike it, they can better themselves by acquiring in-demand skills. If they don't care for the pay/conditions, then they should seek employment elsewhere.
Walmart doesn't exist to offer money and free healthcare to its employees - it exists to offer products at low prices to its customers. If the employees think they're worth more than what they're paid, they have the freedom to work someplace else or open their own business. Again, nobody is forcing them to do anything. That's one of the things that is (still) great about America.

You math is super wrong here.

1,530,000 mil employees/10500 stores = @146 employees/ store.
10,770,000 mil profit per store/146 employees per store = $73,767 dls profit per employee annually (not $738.56 you stated). And again PROFIT, After ALL operational expenses paid.

Your numbers.

On a related note, Walmart numbers in the US only:

Wal-Mart Company Statistics | Statistic Brain

Just stating facts here. Nothing else.

Your number are wrong, but it doesnt matter. Compare wages and benefits to Costco, then compare revenue per employee. You will see that Costco generates greater returns by investing in its employees. I'm guessing your version of reality is pretty set in stone at this point, so be sure to add Walmart to you retirement fund, I know I will not be.

And meanwhile they're not using profits to pay back stockholders, loans, fund expansion, pay taxes, set aside for emergencies, etc. Brilliant!

By passing on higher employee costs, higher prices would clearly be detrimental to the rank and file shopper.

For many jobs, the $15 an hour worker won't be twice as productive as the $7.50 worker. This is especially true in "service industry jobs" where there is no way to obtain higher productivity since the job often is one where anyone can learn whatever is necessary in a short period of time.

Ok, accounting 101 homework: please research the differences between NET& GROSS profit margin (hint; everything you mentioned in your first sentence, except stockholders "pay back", is part of GROSS profit margin). Every 'statistic" you used is NET only.

Btw, Walmart is not part of the Service Industry. They are part of the Retail industry. Not trying to be rude, just explaining facts.

Excellent post!!

Thank you for taking the time to correct those numbers and the attempt from that person to make it sound like big business is fair.



The "me" mentality and the greed is what has this country in ruins.

We do not need people defending "big business" or greed

We need people defending the weak, the poor and the abused

Enough with paying starving wages in the name of free business and other bs.

Enough with more and more profit no matter what the cost for the ones at the bottom.

Enough with more and more pay to management and less and less to the employees.

Who's going to decide how much money you're allowed to make? There has been & always will be "income inequality". Income inequality is "boob bait for bubbas" The real problem is lack of economic growth and the attendant job opportunities that come from economic growth.

What's should decide the minimum a person or a family should make per month or per year are laws set forward by our government to protect the bottom paid workers after calculating each year the minimum a family needs to survive taking into consideration inflation and other things. Slavery is over or at least it should be. As long as that is respected and the bottom paid workers can survive on their salaries then the top are free to make as much as they can.

It's a matter of dignity, honor and Christianity to care about the weakest and the least fortunate

The ones at the top do not need more

The ones at the bottom need your help, they are already working full time.......and not making it

Sir, my respect and admiration to you.

Something doesn't add up here. .

10+ million profit per store X 10,000+ stores would be over 100 Billion in profit.

Walmart doesn't make that much profit.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...hots/2255.html

15 Billion in profit divided by 10,500 stores is about 1.4 million per store.
Just pointing out the math.
I have no other points to make and I can understand both sides of the argument here.

The "real problem" is that the "lack of economic growth" stems from the lack of decent well paid jobs. The upper 10% have managed to continue increasing their piece of the pie, by cutting or freezing pay and benefits for the other 90%. This stagnation/shrinkage of income for those not in the top tier has resulted in slower growth as many struggle just to make ends meet. Thereby causing the feds attempt to artificially stimulate the economy with "cheap money", and allowing people with no extra cash to go further into debt to allow them to make purchases, in the hope this cause economic growth(and not just runaway inflation down the road).

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

The idea that "it's just business" is not a valid excuse for a complete lack of moral compass.

The free market system does not relieve you of your responsibility as a human being.
100% true.

If you want to stimulate the economy, you have to actually work to change the average person's financial well-being. A handful of wealthy people can't stimulate the entire economy. A rising tide lifts all ships, but you can't afford a raft, all you do is drown.

No argument here. Just took a few lines from that person's entry to debunk his accounting statement.. You went further, making it all baseless.

I think that the "Free Market" system DOES relieve you of any responsibility to anyone other than yourself.

And, that is why we don't have totally Free Markets...they are all constrained by various factors, including government regulations and criminal laws and investigative bodies. The question is, how much regulation is the correct amount?

I think that the US is going too far towards the Free Market, and allowing the 1%, and especially the top of the 1%, to wield too much power.

Many of them are screwing others for their benefit, and too many times doing it legally, but immorally. One example of illegal but immoral, would be to pay enough money to our Congress and other government officials, to get laws changed so that previously illegal actions are now legal. Then, they can legally take advantage of others for their own personal gain. This is WRONG!

The more a government is corrupt, the worse off the country is, as a whole.

The three most corrupt countries on earth are North Korea, Somalia and Afghanistan. I would not want to live in those countries. The least corrupt countries are the Scandinavian countries.

This is where we are in America! Like in third world countries, our elected member of government rely on the campaign contributions of the very rich to run expensive campaigns and get themselves elected. They then spend most of their time in office paying back for campaign contributions by making laws that help the 1% at our expense. Our industry and its RLA is a great example of that. In some instances, labor groups(non-ariline industry) today are even loosing the right to collective bargaining, made illegal by new state laws lobbied by...you guessed it-very rich business owners.