(Teamsters) Looming pilot shortage is a myth
 

Not the best source perhaps but still interesting.
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Union Says Lack Of Pay And Respect Leading To Pilot Shortage, Number Of Qualified Pilots Under New Rules [is] Not A Primary Factor...

(02/17/2014, Aero News) Pilots who fly for one of the nation's largest regional airline companies say it's not a lack of qualified pilots, but rather a lack of pay and respect that's grounding airplanes and could cause a ripple effect in the nation's air transportation system. As an example, the union said Republic Airways Holdings announced this week that it would operate 27 fewer airplanes and expects to hire almost half the number of pilots anticipated in 2014 due a lack of candidates who meet new FAA rules mandating 1,500 hours of experience. However, the issues are more complex according to International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local No. 357 which represents the 3000+ pilots who fly for the Indianapolis-based airline. "Regional carriers as a whole need to offer better pay and work rules to attract new pilots,” said Local 357 President Craig Moffatt. "The lack of a competitive contract here at Republic contributes to poor quality of life with sub-standard pay to boot. This, in turn, leads qualified pilots to look elsewhere."

The current collective bargaining agreement (CBA) or contract was ratified in 2003 and became amendable in October of 2007. Pilots are covered by the Railway Labor Act, so the contract does not expire. Negotiations began in April 2007 and entered mediation in 2011. Local 357 pilots have been without a contractual raise or an adjustment of work rules to reflect industry and economic changes for over six years—and counting. Regional carriers are a key link in the nation's air-transportation system. Approximately half of the nation's domestic flights are outsourced to regional airlines rather than flown by a larger carrier. Republic Airways Holdings owns and operates Chautauqua Airlines, Republic Airlines and Shuttle America Airlines which in turn fly for American, United, Delta and US Airways.

Im a pilot reaching ATP mins and I'm keeping my hat out of this ring. I'll consider regionals once the dust settles...which may be never.

You'd be wise to. Regionals are a career move for anyone just getting in, and it's not a sustainable one.

I ended my search for regionals a while back, right about when hiring picked up. I realized I had friends who had been at regionals for 4 years with no upgrade or job prospects in sight.

Older generations expect us to work in an internship forever now, I guess.

As long as we already control everything else about airlines, why not go full overbearing government and change the labor rules? There shouldn't be a way for companies like Great Lakes to create salary systems so people make 4 dollars an hour living life on the road. Unless I don't understand the pay system, because I don't work for an airline, they are allowed to not pay a 121 pilot who is at work for hours, when the door isn't closed?

Yes, that is how it works - not just at Lakes but everywhere.

The hourly rate isn't for every hour on duty, its for every hour of flying (however that is defined).

No we don't but circumstances beyond all of our reach has left all of us with the game we have and the uniform you were issued. I suggest having many back-up plans in which many young pilots do not!

Most don't have back up plans because they have spent over 100k getting a four year degree and all of the ratings required and are generally straped for cash to try to do anything else.
Now they cannot qualify for another loan to get another degree in something outside of aviation.
Its a sad vicious cycle that the universities and flight schools keep promising the "moon" to incoming students and in the end you are saddled with huge debt, making 22k a year with no upgrade in sight, and away from your family over half of the year. But hey your an RJ pilot!!!
I have had a few high school teachers ask me to come and speak to students about being a pilot as a career choice. I certainly don't candy coat it and make it sound as rosy as it was portrayed to me as a child. I know times have changed in the last 20 years in aviation. By the end of my talk, and the Q&A portion most students dont think that becoming a pilot is as glamorous as it once was.
The amount of sacrafice is huge in the hopes you can get on with a legacy, Fedex, corporate, or a carrier that you enjoy flying for with out being burnt out in the process.
Good Luck to future aviation students. This industry will kick your @$$. Hold on for the ride!

True. We built this plan with 9/11, oil price speculation, an increase in retirement age, and multiple mergers just to be sure you young bucks don't get into the left seat of a Boeing. :rolleyes:

There's some truth to that. The baby boomers got on board and pulled up the ladder.

You think CFIs were the ones that drove the retirement age increase?

Corporations aren't greedy, baby boomers are. They made wealth and voted for themselves unsustainable benefits on the backs of future generations, while selling the country's wealth overseas.

I don't want this to be one of those threads, but since you called me out..;)

Who's supposed to pay for all the six figure government pensions? The children of baby boomers didn't choose that, baby boomers did.

It's a little unrealistic to have a backup plan when it takes so much just to get qualified for a professional job now.


"I became an ATP-MEL and a Doctor because I didn't know which would work out first"

Haha...

Millennials: We Suck and We're Sorry - YouTube

First of all, my wife's pension from working in IT for the Feds will be 36K. DoD. She is 58. I do not know what universe you are living in, but we are not there. I wish that we were, but we live in the land called "Reality".

As for unsatainable benefits, the last two wars clock in at 75k per citizen. Great news if you have stock in companies that do no bid DoD contracts. But you will not hear that on FOX, so march on.

I'd like 1 or 2 of those please.
Both of my gov't pensions probably won't equal 6 figures put together in the end.

That is often on the person. His or her decisions are often the biggest player in that game.

Amazing to me how many young guys ASSUME they'll be making it to the majors. It would be like EVERY minor league baseball/hockey player assuming they'll make it to the big show.

All you have to do is count the number of ATPs and subtract the number of active Major airline pilots who are retiring.

"...the last two wars clock in at 75k per citizen.."

75k X 300 million citizens is 22.5 Trillion dollars.

22 trillion basically close
 

Not just the war, including unfunded mandates, stimulus, servicing national debt, banksters bad gambling on the derivatives side...

Much more than 22 trillion, divide that into the shrinking USA labor market.

Labor Force around 150 million participants= 150,000USD / worker in the USA.

Punch that bit of reality into 400USD/week F/O position.

The IMF Banking Debt is in the Quadrillions, who will be covering that???

Yes write your representatives....Question them, something is very wrong.

Safe journies...Sushi

Washington Post estimates the Afghanistan and Iraq wars at 4-6 trillion.

Sure, if you want to lump in all of the outrageous spending (by both political parties) then you arrive at numbers you describe.

Both parties have spent way too much for way too long - but nobody seems to care - they just want to point the finger to the other party....and the outrageous spending continues. You are correct - it is not sustainable.

Why does everyone assume that every single ATP is going to be going to one of the Big 3? There are MANY more opportunities that have similar or better QOL and pay than just the major airlines. Yes, that's where the highest percentage of ATP jobs are, but that's an incredibly irresponsible inference.

A real study would look at the number of Active ATPs with age. It would then take the number of total jobs requiring an ATP and compare that to the amount of ATPs retiring. If the rate of retirement of ATPs is exceeding the amount being created per annum, then you will eventually see a pilot shortage. THAT is the hack way of using statistics. There are many, many more scientifically credible ways to more accurately estimate a shortage. Your narrow-minded math is insufficient.

Make way for the end of the U.S. as we know it, the debt cannot be paid off with our current monetary system. Paying interest on our own money is insanity and if anyone believes that is how our system is supposed to operate, they would be wrong. Servicing the debt is how much, percentage wise of our yearly outlay? If one can't see where the road is leading on this one, I can, it's called national bankruptcy or a revolution. Get rid of the Federal Reserve and it's cowardly morally corrupt psychopaths and watch this country take off. It always amazes me how many times folks fail to recount history when it comes to money. Look at our country prior to and after the establishment of the Federal Reserve system and you would be amazed how interest and debt and the growth of government have exploded.:mad:

When did Congress declare war on Iraq? Afghanistan?

Doesn't matter. The money still went down the military-industrial complex rat hole.

Guess America should have listened to Eisenhower.

No mudslinging at you Cub, but anyone who assumes this clown speaks for the Teamsters would also have to assume that Joe the Plumber speaker for the Plumbers union.

Looks like Aero News needs to explain to their writers how to properly source an article.

Really good to see this discussion
 

It is important for every pilot to understand what is going on with our (Money / Freedom).

these 2 vids cover almost all of it.

"God Save The Republic"

NWO, Secret Societies & Biblical Prophecy: Vol 1 (Revised) - YouTube


The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America. - YouTube

It's probably worse than that.

There's a sector of aviation I tried to get into for a long time, and it was explained to me that there are fewer FOs in that sector than there are Green Bay Packers.

This is an industry for being a whole candidate, not just a set of qualifications. No one will pick you out of the pool of employees and plug you into a good job, you've got to make yourself the best fit and fight to get plugged in everywhere possible.

I think a lot of people really believed that if they worked hard and followed the CFI, regional major plan, it would all work out.

I can't believe it wasn't even 10 years ago that I remember CFIs sitting around with 700 hours talking about all the offers they had.

Very true, but you'd be surprised how many mainline guys say "when are you coming to (Delta United American)?" or, if they see you have been at a regional for 5 or more years, "how come you never applied to (Delta United American)?" Probably less in the majors that make that assumption, but they are there.

Pilot Career Initiative

Dissent to NADA/F Dissent of September 6, 2010
September 11, 2010

Pilot Career Initiative (PCI) is an Ad Hoc group of aviation professionals formed in October 2009. PCI is comprised of representatives of higher education, airline executives as well as training experts, aviation academy representatives, and other dedicated aviation professionals. Because of this diversity, PCI is able to draw on the training as well as safety resources and expertise of airlines, universities, academies and manufacturers. The group was formed due to there mutual concerns for the image of the career of a professional pilot and lack of educational funding. At the time the group was forming, H.R. 3379 was being pushed through congress by what appeared to special interest groups and non‐aviation groups responding to sensational journalistic reporting in the wake of CO3407 and other regional aircraft accidents prior to that. While well intended, PCI believed H.R.3379, as written, would fall short of the objectives of congress.

Following are PCI’s dissents of NADA/F’s specific statements:

There is an issue of a corporate culture, and its detrimental effect to the aviation industry when the traveling public learns of $17,000 to $19,000 pay per year for Part 121 FO’s, and learns that they did not have sufficient training or experience in icing or other bad weather situations.
The American People and Traveling Public want experienced pilots in the cockpit, and we believe that higher pay will attract more experienced pilots.
The Part 121 carriers could provide the needed flight hours to gain that 1,500 flight hours of experience, and they could raise their starting pay to $40,000, or better yet, $60,000+ a year. They would have their choice of thousands of experienced and trained pilots with thousands of hours, who are retired military, and/or formerly with larger airlines, overseas experience, or a combination of flight hours and training.
No one has discussed the psychological factors that could impact someone’s performance on the job, when a young pilot is burdened with low pay, student loans, fatigue, and pressure to possibly work two or more jobs. Many young pilots from the 4-year academic programs have student loans, and a $100,000 student loan is about $1,000 a month for 30 years to pay back. Young pilots take the $19,000 a year pilot job and may work second jobs just to pay their student loan and rent/food. This pathetic pay puts FO new hire pilots in a terrible personal situation, which is not conducive for the focus and energy needed to be a commercial airline pilot.
FOQ ARC Report September 28, 2010 66
5.0 Minority Opinions
FOQ ARC Report September 28, 2010 67
Experienced pilots cannot afford to work for $19,000 and probably know it is not safe to be a commercial airline pilot while forced to work two or more jobs.”

PCI: PCI finds this statement subjective, out of scope, and unbalanced. PCI agrees that as agreed between senior pilots and the company, the junior F/O pay is unattractive. PCI strongly believes the discussion, while important, has no place in the scope of the FOQ ARC and would prefer not to see a seat on the ARC to be used to further an agenda not specifically within the boundaries of the scope of the ARC.
Respectfully Submitted: John A. O’Brien PCI [email protected]

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I like the part where they complain about sensationalized journalistic reporting yet here we are today, 4-years-later, and they are enjoying all the reporting about a pilot shortage. There is no pilot shortage, as was noted above in the report these airline executives responded to. There is simply a shortage of pilots willing to work under the salary and conditions that exist in the regional airline business today. There is nothing new that wasn't predicted 4-years-ago. Nothing.

Funny that you mentioned Joe: U.S. conservative 'Joe the Plumber' a union man? 'You betcha,' he says | Reuters