With all the "NO" votes, is it time to apply?
 

Hi,

Been CFIing for 12 years. Needless to say but I'm freaked tired of pattern. However I'm in no way able to get in amps king $25K a year.

With all the shortage news and with Eagle and Republic voting NO, is it finally time to apply for the regionals?

Or how are all these "NO" votes affecting new FO???

3000 TT all in a Cessna!!!!
100 multi

Cheers.

What do you make as a CFI where you're unable to take the paycut for a year? I was making 30k as a CFI. First year regional pay was 20k, then 2nd year at the regionals I made 40k. By the end of 2 years at the regionals I had made 60k total which is the same amount I would have made in 2 years at my CFI job. By the end of year 3 at the regionals I was making far more than I could have as a CFI and pay was only going up from there.

If money is your issue you'll make far more at the regionals than you would as a CFI.

Now is the time to apply if you want to have your choice of regionals to work for and move up fast. Right now you can pretty much pick your 'ideal' regional, apply there and have an interview within a month.

Thanks!

I make $55 an hour as a CFI. I take home around $3k to $5k per month pending student load.

I am out in California so I'm thinking Skywest or Compass. However Compass never called and I have had my app in with them for over a year.

What regional do you work at to make $60k the end of second year???

Thanks

60k total at the end of two years. I made 30k/year as a CFI so 60k over 2 years. At the regionals I made 20k first year, 40k 2nd year so I had 60k total after 2 years. I was just saying that 2 years is about the break even point where you'll be making more money from that point on at the regionals than you probably were as a CFI. That's why it doesn't make sense not to move on.

If you're making $3-4k per month as a CFI you'll easily make that by year 2 or 3 at most regionals especially now that they're all understaffed. There's plenty of flying to go around. New captains easily make 60k+ most places too.

I was making more than 50K. Granted, I was working myself to death, but such things are possible for sure. It's not the "paycut", I could have delt with a paycut, it's pay so low that the basics can't be paid for.

I don't rememember my year one or two totals, but my 2013 (year 3 pay) total was $54k, and if I keep up my average for 2014 it should come to $62k (year 4 pay).
As an FO.

I also know a guy who nearly cracked $60k on 2nd year pay. That dude was insane though. :eek:

Check out Ameriflight. Great place to get a good experience. You can get 1000 PIC turbine pretty quick I think.

You won't make that at Republic thats for sure...best case there as an FO is about 40.

Update your app/resume every week or two.

What regional are you guys working for?!? The best I ever did 2yrs ago as a 5yr FO was 39k, I did 38k last year. I will do better this as I have upgraded. Looking back 1st yr 21k, 2nd yr 27k, 3rd 32k, 4th 36k 5th 39k 6th 38k, 7th ?

That seems more typical of a regional. FWIW I work for AM Eagle..

Same for Endeavor. 9 years in and I won't break $40,000 this year unless I re-upgrade.

I think pilots tend to overestimate their pay sometimes. I was an fo at xjt for 5 years and I think I made 41k when I was a senior fo. But I didn't bust my butt. I just flew four 4 days and went home. Pay doubled when I upgraded, then almost cut in half when I moved on. Unfortunately pay cuts are common with moving on.

I would advise the op to go to the first regional that calls. Skip the 135 freight, it's not worth it anymore.

Take home after taxes or before taxes?
Thanks Cap,

I made 46 third year pay at eagle, it did include the first half of the bankruptcy pay out.

...and if one tries to commute to any Republic base from anywhere near or west of the continental divide, you will hate life.

Hey, Songman, if you don't mind my asking, I would think that with the serfs revolting at the regionals (largely because of the terrible pay and working conditions) that you'd think twice about making the move; so what's your reasoning for thinking that now is the time?

These "no" votes are intended to tell management to "stuff it," but new hires coming through the door, more than any other factor, really hurt our ability to encourage management to do better.

Believe me, I feel your pain, I have 4000 hours of dual given myself. I'm not saying that you shouldn't make the move, just give it a few months.

Songman you do realize that you have left hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table by CFI'ing over the years. If you would have CFI'd for 2 years and then came to the regionals 10 years ago you would have been a captain in 2 years, since upgrade was short at some regionals, making $70k and now you would be a 10 year longevity captain making $90,000. Also, most don't consider it pay but regional pilots get 4 to $6,000 per year in tax free per diem.

For those of you claiming to make 50+ as a junior regional FO make sure you tell the OP what kind of schedule it took to make that scratch. I'm guessing max credit, min days off. No thank you. Its possible to make good money as a junior FO, but will have NO LIFE outside of your airline. QOL is king, my friend.

Man, that is a looooong time? Are you trying to be Rod Machado?

If you can, wait until the summer is over. This will be the crucible. Will regionals be able to meet the high summer demand? They are going to have to junior man (pay overtime) like hell to even hope to do it.

And they still won't be able. Pay peanuts, you get monkeys. There is kind of a stand-off going on now between Congress, the Regionals and the Majors. Just how bad those parties will let it get is anybody's guess. If you do apply now and go to training right away, you'll be in the front row seat to see the summer meltdown!

I made 37k first year, and just shy of 49k second year. I did pick up quite a bit of premium pay, but it wasn't nearly as readily available as it is now. Mostly I'd pick up either turns, or CDO's. 2 hours of block for 6 hours of credit works well, as does 2 hours of block, 6+ hours of pay at 150%, and still having almost all of both days off on either end. Some of the CDO's are awesome.

Currently, premium pay at my company is being offered at 200%, so you could do even better than I did.

I was also commuting for about half of each year, so that cut down significantly on the amount of extra flying I was willing to do.

So yes, I did fly on some days off. It's hard to turn down $240 for two hours of work. If there was one thing that I'd say is the most important piece of making okay money at a regional, it's not commuting. Do whatever you have to do in order to not commute.

In my personal opinion CommutAir is a great place to be right now. Starting pay is $30/hour now with an upgrade around 2 years (+/- a few months now because of lack of FOs) and our commuter clause now allows you to receive hotels in base paid for by the company. My opinion might be biased because I've never worked for anyone else but I can tell you that right now I am happy with my job and the pilot group is GREAT!

not even mainline has that clause for hotel rooms.

1st off, I'm at SKW.
2nd, I live in base.
3rd, Soft credit is king. Find it where ever possible.
4th, I have a life. I have a wife and kid at home, and being home is #1. I don't do 3 or 4 day trips. Mostly 2days, CDOs, and locals.
5th, as long as the credit is there and it's totally commutable, I'll pick up an out of base trip. ONLY when I want it. Otherwise, commuting sucks.
6th, always be on the lookout for Jr.Man.
7th, I was home EVERY day last month, doing CDOs only. Got paid 119hrs, blocked 53.

I credited over 1250hrs last year, and blocked just shy of 700.
Averaged over 105h/month pay, blocked around 60h/month.

Pick a base where your seniority works for you, live in it. Don't walk by a penny on the ground without picking it up.
You can do fine. Not easy to modify a schedule the way I do, but learn all the rules, and it pays dividends.

Your earning potential depends on your payrate (obviously) and much of it on your seniority, which you may have luck with or not. In my opinion the figures that have been posted so far are not a proper indicator of typical regional FO pay, and are definitely the top-end of the spectrum. Possible, sure, not claiming the guys here are making it up. But IMO and experience you really have to be putting in the extra effort and sacrifices to get there, and also require a bit of luck in finding the right trips, lots of it is company dependent how flexible you can be.

i am slightly confused. 12 years and 3000 TT but $3-$5k a month on $55/hr?

I free lance. Sometimes I have students and sometimes I don't. $3-$5k is an average.

I also took couple years off in the middle.

YOUR SITUATIONS IS NOT TYPICAL. You are in the top 10% of regional pilots. This is like some fotune 500 guys saying "It's normal to have a private jet and a yacht. Everyone has one."

I fly similar equipment under the control of the same CEO as you and I have seen 200% once in 7 years. I have tried and the most I have ever credited was 107 hours. That was like 99hrs block. Many airlines do not support soft time as much as you make it sound like.

If a guy is asking a question because finances may be important to him, at least have the modesty to tell him the truth. Not brag about your seriously lucky situation.

How many of these guys are also counting per diem as income?

Also, living in base could also suck if you hate the area, which may make you hate your job. Commuting sucks and may make you hate your job too. I guess you gotta do what you think is right. Regionals close bases a fast as they open. For the longest time xjt only had bases in iah, cle, ewr. I tried living in iah for about 6 months and wanted to slit my wrists. I became happier when I started commuting 3 hours. I'm probably the odd man out but I'd rather commute and deal with commuting bs vs living in base for a company you don't plan on staying at.

OK that's great and is far from normal. Out of curiosity, where do you bid in your base? I would guess top 3rd?

I made decent money as an FO and CA at a commuter.

It's true, some months I worked well into my days off. You have to, to get the soft pay. At $120/hr I would've worked 24/7 if I legally could. But how much does the guy working as a CFI have to work to credit 100 hours a month? Way more than a regional pilot that is for sure. Perspective.

Is the scale on the profile page incorrect? It shows $23/hr for the Q200 and $25/hr for the Q300.

I understand day trips if you are top 3rd but CDOs not really, I am Junior in my base but since I am based and live in a Base where 85% of the FOs and Captains are commuters the top 10 take the day trips and live at base while the rest are commuters and they don't want to do CDOs. Four months straight now I have been doing CDOs and pick up either day trips or two days (for perdiem) on my days off and get about 99 to 103 credit a month. Wish my company had premium pay like my previous one then I would wait for them to call me on my days off with offers but I have to work with what I have right now.

Anyways we are straying away from Songmans question. The truth is that it is hard to find a regional to make money first or second year with how much you are making now, that is why we all have to stay united on all these concessionary contracts and show the companies that we are worth more than they think.
Songman sometimes you have to take a step back or two to take a step forward... I had to do it. I was at $35 an hour and went down to $19 and slowly moving forward, got the QOL right now and working on money now.

The pay scale is incorrect. I sent APC a copy of our LOA so hopefully they change the numbers on here soon. FO years 1,2, & 3 are $30, $32 & $33.

I bid 65%. Not Senior at all.

Also, guessing SLC based?

The No votes mean there are no changes to how things have been. All the regionals still have their previous low paying contracts, so if you go to a regional now it will be the same pay as if you went, say, 7 years ago. Maybe even less now, if you factor in inflation. The only difference, as someone else pointed out, is that you lost all those years of seniority.

If you goal is to be an airline pilot, you should go, like yesterday.

If your goal is to make $$$, charge more an hour and specialize in the types of instruction you like. Or network and go into corporate.

Yea we just got a new pay rate effective 4/1. First year FO pay is $30 an hour at C5 for the 200 and 300