How commuting works
 

Sorry for the noob question, but I'm looking to improve my limited understanding of how commuting works, given that it looks like I'll have to commute for a while after starting at OO.

As I understand it, here's how it works. Please correct me where I'm wrong (and I'm sure much of this is wrong.)

1. On Skywest aircraft, you can list for the jumpseat in advance, presumably using a website to do so. How long in advance can you list? Is it first-come, first-served, or does it go by seniority?

2. On aircraft operated by a partner airline (AA, DAL, UAL, Alaska)...how does that work? I assume that mainline crews get priority. Can you list in advance or do you just have to show up and hope you get a seat? Who can bump you? And, given that OO only operates for AA and Alaska along relatively limited routes, how would your chances of getting an Alaska jumpseat be if you aren't flying on a OO airplane on an Alaska route?

3. On aircraft operated by non-partner airlines (SWA, VX, etc etc), you cannot list in advance. You just show up at the airport and hope there is a seat. You are last in priority after mainline crew and crew at regionals that partner with that mainline.

I'm not talking about travel benefits...just the logistics of getting to and from work.

A few more questions:
1) Let's say you commute out of SFO, as I would be. Can you park for free in SFO employee parking or do you have to pay?

2) In the worst-case scenario, you've done your best but you can't find a seat on any airline, meaning you're stuck in Dubuque while you're supposed to be in O'Hare. Crew scheduling calls you for a trip, and you confess you can't make it. How many times can that happen before they show you the door?

3) In places such as MSP, ORD, DEN, COS, IAH (the junior RJ bases, I believe), are there crash pads within reach of the airport by public transit?

Sorry for the long-winded questions but given that an SFO/EMB base does not seem to be an option for new guys for quite some time, I just wanted to figure out how to prepare for the commuting life. Thank you for helping a FNG.

Typically you have priority on your own metal. Offline depends on the Jumpseat agreement.
You're on your own for parking out of domicile, unless there's been a change in the past year.
Don't miss your commute while on probation (year 1). Don't make a habit of it after that (miss more than one a year)
COS most likely won't have a convinent crash pad, DEN is nearly in Kansas, so not real likely there, the others should. Once you get on property check the SAPA boards.

As I understand it:
You can't really list for jumpseat in advance (except on AA). You show up to the gate and list at the gate. Skywest crews have priority for jumpseats on Skywest airplanes. If you list with another Skywest pilot then it goes by seniority for who gets the jumpseat.

Again you just show up at the gate and list. Anyone listed who works for the airline will have priority over you. For United flights the priority is UAL pilots, then United Express employees by time of checkin. If you check in before an expressjet/republic pilot you bump them. If they check in before you then they bump you.

Chances of getting on vary by route. I've commuted ORD-SFO, ORD-LAX and LAX-FAT in my career. ORD-SFO and ORD-LAX I rarely ever got bumped. The jumpseat was always available. LAX-FAT I was bumped probably an average of 3 times every single day I tried to do that commute. Every plane is full with multiple jumpseaters for every flight. It got better once we started doing the AA flights and had priority on them. When Eagle operated those flights I would get bumped by mainline American pilots all the time who for some reason choose to live in FAT.

You can list in advance for some airlines. Every airline is different. SWA, JetBlue and American are three that prefer you call ahead or list online. Most airlines just have you list at the gate.

Jumpseaters always have last priority on the standby list. Even on a Skywest flight if you list for jumpseat you're put at the bottom of the standby list. It doesn't matter if you're offline or not.

Skywest will not buy commuters parking passes anywhere other than their domicile. Parking is 100% on you if you're looking for a parking pass outside of your domicile even if you live in one domicile and commute to another. I have a lot of unkind things to say about this policy so I'll just leave it at that.

I met a guy with over 30 SADs once who hadn't been fired. Your first year you'll be on probation and won't be able to get away with much. After that it's pretty hard to get fired.

For what it's worth I commuted ORD-SFO, ORD-LAX and ORD-FAT for 2 years and never missed a single commute. If you're nervous about loads or it's near a holiday just leave yourself a few options and don't try to commute at the last second. As long as you plan ahead a bit it's not that hard (but it's a big waste of your time at home).

Yes. Every domicile will have crashpad listings posted in the crew room. You probably want to stay away from maintenance bases like COS, TUS and FAT as a commuter. Most trips in maintenance bases start early in the morning when planes come out of maintenance, then end late at night with planes coming in for overnight maintenance. When I was based in FAT I would get stuck there for an extra night a lot because there are no late flights out of FAT, and every show time is early in the morning.

You'll probably get a transfer to at least LAX if not all the way to SFO within your first few months. Things are moving a bit at the bottom of the seniority list.

So if I was commuting SFO-ORD, given that those are both AA hubs, AA would seem like a good option, yes? And now that OO will be flying SFO-ORD, that would seem to make that commute a bit easier.

But you're not behind passengers, right? Since if the flight is completely full AND there is no other OO pilot wanting the JS, you get the JS in the cockpit, yes? Wait a minute...does an RJ even physically have a JS?

Wow.

That would be nice!

Thank you for all your advice, it is much appreciated...!!

American would work, but SFO/ORD are also both United hubs, and I believe Virgin has flights between the two as well so you'll have plenty of options to work with. I haven't heard anything about SkyWest metal flying SFO/ORD. That one seems to have no trouble filling mainline flights all day.

You'd be behind revenue passengers, but you can still take the flight deck jump seat if it isn't otherwise occupied or taken by someone with priority over you. Yes, the RJ has a physical jump seat....it isn't comfortable but it'll get you there.

[QUOTE=kfahmi;1649364]So if I was commuting SFO-ORD, given that those are both AA hubs, AA would seem like a good option, yes? And now that OO will be flying SFO-ORD, that would seem to make that commute a bit easier.


SkyWest will NOT be flying SFO-ORD... that is a mainline route all the way.

The only plane I've been on without a jumpseat is a Beach 1900. If you're commuting SFO-ORD it's not going to be on RJs. They're all mainline 737s, A320s and 757s. Sometimes you'll get lucky and get a 777 on that route.

Skywest isn't going to fly SFO-ORD. That's hub to hub for both United and American which is prohibited by scope. It also pushes the limitations of what both the 700 and E175 could do range wise with a full load of passengers.

I used to take Virgin, AA and United in that order for my ORD-SFO and ORD-LAX commutes. Virgin is the best but only runs a couple of flights per day. AA treats their jumpseaters really well. United runs the most flights per day so I'd end up on United if that was the best option but I tried to avoid it.

[QUOTE=air101;1649395]Oops, sorry. I saw the announcement of E175 service SFO-MSP and somehow got MSP confused with ORD. Thank you.

I thought for sure you'd get the sarcastic answers like, "It's a non-paid part time job on your days off."

No really, It's a non-paid part time job on your days off.:eek:

Yeah, I kinda figured that out already. I think I am starting to understand why everyone told me, "Whatever you do, don't commute, and for the love of God do not commute to reserve." So I'm just looking for whatever plan takes me to an SFO base in the shortest possible timeframe.

I can see myself commuting for a year or two but I cannot imagine how the guys who commute for many years, especially across the country and especially during holidays and major weather events, manage to do it.

As a commuter, Airbuses are your best friends. 2 jumpseats, and they are fairly comfortable. Most Boeings are fairly punishing in the jumpseat, although not all. RJs of any type are miserable.

Just something to keep in mind when planning. Any will work, but preference for the Airbus. Plus you'll have the entertainment of hearing the plane call the pilot a retard on landing.

The basic gist is that you will start a successful commute being relatively conservative (i.e. plenty of backup options, all of which are eating into your personal time). As you become more comfortable with the commute and the factors affecting it, you might consider paring down the number of backups or outs you give yourself. When something goes wrong, such as irregular ops from a major weather event.... more backup options.

I never went without one good backup, and that was out of SJC where it was EASY to commute. I didn't get on a grand total of two times in a year out of SJC - one was a mechanical, and upon checking in with the crew who came out to the terminal I hustled down to southwest and was out of there. The other, because a Fed who I swear looked like a real life version of the manager in Dilbert comics wanted the jumpseat on a skywest RJ that was otherwise full. By contrast, going in and out of SFO to DEN (two united hubs) I lost out several times to overbooked flights and United mainline commuting pilots. So along those lines - don't count out OAK and SJC. They will become your friends, especially since they are less delay-prone than SFO.

On the parking front, I have a gem of a wife who took me to the airport, bless her. However, there were times I had to find my own way and did find ways to park near both SFO and SJC for free (neighborhoods) which had some slight risk but worked out OK each time. Some adventurous people park at hotels near SFO and take the hotel shuttle, just pretending to stay there.

Finally, the specifcs of how to work out each airline are something you will figure out once hired. For the skywest airline partners (DL, UA) which you will likely have nonrev benefits on you can make a nonrev listing ahead of time which the gate agents will prefer. Of course they would need do validate you to sit in the jumpseat, but listing ahead of time saves them work. The ALPA jumpseat website details procedures and recommendations for offline pilots on a number of carriers and I always consult this before asking for a ride on a new carrier.

Finally, maybe because I was indoctrinated in the old school way of things -- I always check in with the crew and introduce myself, asking the captain for the ride, even if given a seat in the back and 'listed' as a nonrev.

Thanks folks, great info to have. I rent a hangar at OAK where I could park my car...hmm...now if I could just talk the Landmark or Kaiser guys into giving me a free ride to the airline terminal side...

Great info, I really appreciate it!

Your first best option on any route is your own company. Next would be any airlines on which you have higher priority and nonrev benefits (ie mainline partners).

Nonrev and JS are two separate things. All US airline pilots can pretty much JS on all US airlines. If the cabin is not full you will ride in the back, otherwise you'll sit in the actual. Some smaller planes (50 seaters, props) are often overweight before the cabin fills up, in which case the JSer is not riding anywhere. Wx at the destination which requires alternate fuel commonly makes a flight overweight. For security reasons, we won't discuss detailed JS procedures, you can get that info from SAPA.

Basically three kinds of Nonrev are available:

1) Company. On company aircraft most employees have priority. Between two company employees it's seniority by DOH, and pilots don't get any special priority...if the janitor was hired the day before you, he rides first. You can normally list and get security docs online just like any revenue pax. A regional employee will likely have to use a mainline partner's nonrev listing system to list on his own airplane.

2) Partners. Regional employees have some priority on their company's mainline partners. This is typically below all mainline employes and their families but above mainline buddy passes and ID90.

3) ID90. Airline employees and their immediate family can usually buy space-available passes at a deep discount off the revenue dare (ID90 = 90% discount off Y fare). This applies to most US and many foreign airlines. Priority is below all other nonrevs BUT ABOVE JS-ing PILOTS.

If you don't have nonrev bennies on an certain airline then you can JS or buy an ID90...most pilots will do JS obviously. List for the JS advance (if possible for that airline) and show up early. Usually priority for offline JS is first-come/first-served behind any company pilots (who can normally bump you at any time).

If you have nonrev bennies then sometimes you have to choose between nonrev and JS listing. You can't be listed both ways in the system. This is a bit tricky. Nonrev is better because your priority for cabin seats is higher than ID90 and JSers...more comfortable ride. But if the cabin fills up then you might need the JS, but if they already put a junior-to-you or offline pilot in the JS and you try to change to JS at the last minute you might get denied. To be safe you should "commit" to the JS 30 minutes prior to departure. Also if weight is an issue you may well be better off nonreving because they will fill EVERY cabin seat they can (buddy passes and ID90) before they put a pilot in the actual JS.

I'll usually list and check-in as a nonrev, go to the gate and try to get some onfo, and then decide whether to switch to the JS. Making this call is more art than science. Usually you live and die by your own decisions on this but sometimes a savvy gate agent will manage the process of switching pilots between nonrev and JS status to ensure that actual company priority and seniority is respected.

One other thing...SKW had at one point (maybe still has) a "policy" that SKW pilot seniority applies to ALL offline JSing. This is BS because SKW has no authority or agreements in place regarding this for other airline's JS procedures, which are normally first-come-first served. Some old-skool SKW dinosaurs still think they roll up five-prior and bump a junior SKW pilot off the JS of a SWA plane. Don't fall for that, tell them to pound sand. It's not enforceable unless you voluntarily allow it (which would be stupid).



If you are in a JS status you are behind ALL other pax...revenue, nonrev, buddy pass, ID90. This includes folks who would be lower priority than you if you had listed as a nonrev. They will board EVERY cabin pax before you and then, only if weight allows, do you get the JS.

Pretty much anything larger than 19 seats has a JS...but the Brasilia for example is so weight limited that you can almost never get in the actual if the cabin is full.

M20EPilot Quote: Finally, maybe because I was indoctrinated in the old school way of things -- I always check in with the crew and introduce myself, asking the captain for the ride, even if given a seat in the back and 'listed' as a nonrev.

Great advice and great courtesy.

The only time I didn't personally request permission to board and thank the captain for a ride on a non rev was when he was CLEARLY too busy to take the time to talk to me (crap wx and pencil whipping an MEL). It only happened once, and I wrote a note saying that I didn't want to disturb him while he was so busy, but I wanted to thank him. I gave it to the FA to give to him. I have no idea what his response was (WX and a tight turn kept him busy at the destination), but I hope he appreciated the gesture.

Even when I was positive space on a company flight (we didn't do that much), I tried to at least say "hi" just to let the crew know in the case of emergency, they had a company pilot on board.

Maybe what I did was overkill, but I'd like to think I never snubbed a captain.

Short answer: If you are riding for free, be sure to thank the captain. One day when you are the guy signing for the plane, you will appreciate the gesture.

Wow, thank you for all the detailed and informative responses. Very, very helpful.

It seems like things would be a lot easier if there was one central website where everyone (non-rev'ers, JS'ers, etc) could view all available spots on all available airlines, and list for those spots (with the knowledge that weight issues could bump them at anytime.) Basically just like a crew bidding system, but open to everyone. Seems like it would take a lot of the stress out of everyone's commute. Of course, there'd be a cost associated with building and managing that site, and no airline's going to want to cover that cost.

Sounds like SFO-ORD is do-able, SFO-LAX should be pretty easy (given that there are also OAK-LAX and SJC-LAX flights). SFO-DEN and SFO-MSP sound pretty miserable from what I've heard...

And for me, an OAK commute would be perfect since I'm literally 10 minutes from the airport.

Thanks again, folks -- I really appreciate all the help.

Just an FYI, Spirit just started a daily OAK to ORD this month. 9 am flight that lands around 3 I think.

You can park in the Domestic Garage at a discounted rate (I think it's $14/day now). You have to get employee coupons from the parking office near the garage exit on Level 3, you just need an Airline ID.

Keep in mind, SFO-LAX used to be relatively easy, but there are now hundreds of American guys making the commute since they closed the SFO base at AA.

OAK parking is the best deal if you're paying your own, I think it's around $100 per quarter (3 mos.). Office is in the older terminal upstairs to get an employee sticker.

I commute to & from ORD while living on the West Coast. With that being said, I've never gotten a SAD, gotten bumped or missed a commute. Get there early enough to get the jump if needed & allow a few flights before the last one so you don't get stuck. Some people may choose to play it a little closer (commute in the morning of or the take the last flight of the day in), but you will figure out what works for you after you learn the ropes.
FYI, keep your options open on holidays, it can be a real mess.

If you're a commuter, how do you go about finding out whether or not you're eligible for employee parking? I've talked to two different airport employees where I will be commuting from and neither had the slightest clue. Even tried to call airport ops and had no luck.

Some options are, get a ride to the airport or call around/search internet and see who offers an airport employee discount. I've come across some as low as $5/day.

Don't forget fedex or ups. With them once you sign up for the Jumpseat it's your seat. Not even another fedex/ups guy can bump you off it.

I used to do the AFW-ORD commute and it was the latest flight (2am) I could take to show for a 6am show in ORD and I usually had the whole row of 4 seats to myself and the cargo containers.

Kfahmi:

If you are at north field/Kaiser/Landmark at OAK walk 2-3 minutes to where the rental car buses drop off/pickup. Its one bus system, no Hertz or Avis buses. Buses to/from the main terminal go every five minutes or so. They do no care whether you rented a car or not. At least I never had a problem. There are even places you can park near to Kaiser, if you're sly, without going in their lot and can probably get away with it for a few days without paying anything, or getting a ticket/tow. I will not guarantee that, but again, its worked for me.

You are absolutely right -- I totally forgot about the new rental car shuttle. My hangar is like a 5 minute walk from that shuttle. Perfect :)

That's kind of awesome actually!