Envoy/AEagle flow through
 

How does the "flow" through or seniority number work from American Eagle to American/USair work? Are they still honoring the numbers from American Eagle?

Yes. For now. There are no seniority numbers at AA given to Eagle (ENY) pilots, but... There is a set of 2 different flow through agreements.

The first, is called the "824". It's an arbitration award that the company HAS to abide by, or face the wrath of the mighty arbitrator! It was rewarded for damages done to almost 1000 Eagle (ENY) pilots when AA had flow-backs come to Eagle and displace CA's, FO's, and cause furlough's. Basically, the original award was for AA to fill 50%, or better, of their new hire classes with Eagle (ENY) pilot's, until 824 Eagle's (ENY) pilots have gone over. The company is currently metering to 20 pilots a month though (sucks on months AA has over 40 people in classes).

The second flow agreement is the "Protected Pilots" agreement. Basically, it's a contract agreement (LOA), that was agreed upon between our previous MEC and AA in exchange for scope relaxation. The LOA is that AA would staff 30%, or better, of new hire classes with Eagle (ENY) flow through's, or a minimum of 20 a month (I think) This extends to any pilot on property prior to Oct 2011. This was agreed upon by the MEC in exchange for AA to take the airplanes on Eagle property (certificated in Eagle's name) and re-cert them in AA's name, and cancel the scope clause for Eagle pilots to go with the airplane's if they where removed from Eagle (side note, the pilots where NOT given the chance to vote on this. It was a back room dealing). This one is very convoluted. There's several side notes in the new post BK contract that changes, increases the flow numbers in certain events. Such as "If Eagle (ENY) finds themselves with a surplus of pilots, and in a position that furlough where possible, the flow shall increase to XX% a month". Also, the way the company meters as they see fit, and seems to have no regard to the contract at times, I wouldn't be surprised to see the "Protected Pilots" agreement somehow get treated the same. By that, I mean the '824' is an arbitration award, so they cannot mess with it much. The 'Prot Pilot' program is just an LOA, so we'll see how they treat the flow through stuff after the '824' is over.

Good explanation

Not entirely true. The flowback provision was always part of the deal. There were some interpretation grievances about how it was implemented, but none of them really resulted in any earth shattering rulings.

The 824 ruling was a result of the order of furlough recalls around the 2007 time frame. Eagle had some numbered pilots slotted between furloughees, but when AA was recalling, they skipped past those pilots and only recalled the "nAAtives". ALPA grieved this, and although there were only 150 or so Eagle pilots directly affected, they were able to make the case for downline damages, as pilots were unable to upgrade, move to higher paying aircraft, get off reserve, etc.

In the end, the arbitrator ordered the withheld Eagle pilots to be brought over to AA at whatever their pay step would have been (3-4 years), and determined that a total of 824 additional Eagle pilots were adversely affected, and would be given the opportunity to flow.

also the pilots did vote for the change in scope and passed it. dumb shi ts. thery gave away a direct access to aa in 2011 for a maybe flow over many years. just shows you 1. the then mec lied to the pilots and 2. the pilots had no idea what there contract on scope said.

Still its better that Pee S A "flow"...

well if you consider that when the planes transferred to aa on that day you would have transferred to aa instead of waiting 5-10 years I don't know if it is better than psa.

I'd have to agree. Idk exactly how the eagle flow works as far as how many leave per month when it's not metered to 20 but based on the current number of pilots APC shows, it looks like 9.05% of the eagle guys n gals definitely flow each year (based on 20/ month) where as 7.38% of psa guys n gals definitely get a class date each year (48/ year).

All the ENY pilots are guaranteed a class where as PSA pilots may not get offered the spot after waiting out their 8+ years for the interview. And then they are stuck on whatever payscale if they took the interview before year 12 I think.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of this math I've done or if there's more to it that I'm not taking into consideration. I am aware that PSA is supposed to up the 48 number as the 900's start coming. Otherwise I'm only a pilot there's bound to be mistakes :p

I think they can negotiate to increase the flow, once every 900 is on property. But if they can keep staffing I doubt that will happen.

The flow is a joke. Always has been.

It gives guys the chance to move up that couldn't otherwise.

Just had a friend flow through, good for him, feel free to kiss our arses.

Lol! Ok. That was funny :D

,..........................

more like to sell out the rest to keep the brass ring in there hands

Also anyone hired after October 2011 (which is very few since November was BK and no hiring was done for a while and now barely anyone shows up) has a "preferential interview." After they get I believe 2000 hours they can get an interview at AA but no promise of the actual job.

so after October 2011 envoy has a psa like interview for aa.

Yes but I also do not think there is any requirement to hire any of them. However, most people know that these "preferential interviews" are so far off it's out of sight, out of mind.

makes good P.R. for hiring though if it works. so far its a leaking water barrel.

I don't recall there being any vote on this subject. What I do recall was getting a phone blast and email in the summer of 2011 about how our MEC (the previous, inept, self-serving MEC) had secured an agreement that "greatly enhanced the careers of American Eagle pilots." The pilots DID NOT vote for the scope change. We WERE screwed by our own MEC.

yes there was a vote, well before the BK CBA where 98% of those who voted as per the then MEC said voted yes. Don't forget the fiasco secret negotiations the old mec did in 2010 behind the pilots back. You can call the mec and ask about this vote.