9e chief pilot
 

Pinnacle's chief pilot stepped down today. The rumored reason is he stood up to management's pushing toward lower upgrade time (1800hrs?). Management was going to push it through anyway, so he stepped down. We are already hiring 200hr FO's because no one with knowledge of the industry/experience wants to work for our contract, now we will pair low time capts with them? Here's an idea: GIVE A COMPETITIVE CONTRACT THAT PILOTS WILL WANT TO WORK FOR AND YOU WANT HAVE TO HIRE 19YR OLDS WHO STILL HAVE THEIR PAPER COMMERCIAL LISCENCE!!!!

He should have at least made a public scene

Nope. Smart move not too. Stay on the down low.

Hmmm...... that's not really the greatest news. Are you guys sure they're pushing it to 1800?

can anybody confirm these rumors and where you've got'em from...?

I know we are short as hell on capts but I was hearing that the 3000 rule was still in place. Mgmt just needs to run a bunch of upgrade classes...

The rumors came (as far as I can tell) from Corporate (the CEC for those familiar)...many in management at the time were weighing in between 1800-2200 hours. On the line, some check airmen have been saying that management wanted 1800 but that the chief pilot would not sign off. Now he steps down and some people are speculating this is the central issue.

I believe this started getting kicked around in October/November

This is good news for those guys out there looking for their CA stripes...

I don't see the big deal in upgrading someone at 1800 hours.

-LAFF

actually it would have been good if he made a scene to the public saying "your flying with really inexperienced pilots because our company has a lower payscale and we cannot attract any experienced by pilots because of our pay" that is a surefire way to influence public opinion

Ya but think of those of us that could have been st. CA's two years ago if it had been 1800 for CA..... Now I have had to wait for the majic three which ironically i did hit a long time ago and still havent upgraded.... bottom line those of us that waited and built our hours could get FUKED.... and have 1800 hour academy pukes step infront of us once again....:mad: :mad: :mad:

I agree that the 3000 hour guys need to go before the low time wonders, but I would rather run through the 3000 hour guys and go down to maybe 2400 hours or so as opposed to street capts. I think there needs to be at least 1000 hours in type though. Just my thoughts- I am soo far down the totem pole I will just be happy to not have green reserve blocks on the schedule...

Why are they lowering the upgrade times? Is it the result of hiring low time guys, so they're short on Capts?

There should be no pilots, no matter where they are from in the airlines with below a certain number of hours. It should be at least 500 (and that is still low) but it should be a hard number, not to be broken. I heard that there was a guy with like 280 hours that got hired. Now that is a joke, what can he bring to a "professional" job. NOTHING! I think that his mommy must have gotten him a job by being a flight attendant or something.

rediculous
 

I hope you Pinnacle guys start standing up to your management. Hiring 1800 hour cessna pilots and putting them in the left seat will finally be the demise of this profession. Couple that with 200 hour wet behind the ears kids with no SA. It may sound good to you now, but most of you guys will never leave the regional level the way the industry is heading. There will never be a shortage of 200 hour pilot without college degrees beause you can make them in a few months and they will have no options. Your Chief Pilot made the right move and ALPA needs to go to the media with this crap!

You guys are so full of yourselves. If someone can pass the rides and has the abilities so be it. Ideally you would want a CA to have about 20000 hours but that aint happening either.

The training is watered down these days at the regional level. Most people can pass because the test is taught to them. It really has no revelance to the experience level that a new employee is suppose bring to this profession. In my opinion your first professional job as a pilot should not be in a 50 pax jet; it's not a college training enviroment.

I wont argue the 200 hour part of things, I got hired (in sept 06) with just shy of 1000 at 9e and 1000/200 was about the average. We had a few ATP guys and 1 gulfstreamer- one ATP guy didnt even make it through the CPT's. I think at least some CFI experience is the least someone should have and 750 hours should be an insurance minimum, the problem is there are plenty of guys flying with 500 hours that do a great job and do have a head on their shoulders, and others with 5000 hours that need an FMS to find their ass (after they get help setting it up), on top of that how do you explain military guys- many of which have less than 1000 hours and are defending us halfway across the globe, would you not hire them if they got out of the military at this moment? Supply and demand is the game, and right now supply is short. You need to get time somewhere and what would stop someone that just got their ratings and can get hired flying 121 with 200 hours to say "no, I want to instruct for peanuts first?" I did the instruction thing and made crap for wages, and now make about the same at a regional. I do believe that the regional level should be held to 50 seats or less, many "regional jets" are going far too far to be "regional" in my opinion. But what can someone do when there is 70-100 seaters on the ramp looking for pilots to fly em and mainline doesnt want to fly em? I do feel that the left seat needs alot of experience because there is a lack of experience in the right no matter how you look at it. I dont want to step on toes here but the reality is that 200 pilots will find their way to the right seats because setting a 1000 hour bar keeps regionals too shorthanded. The issue at hand is the left seat- i still think 1000 hours in type and at least (minimum) 1000 hours previous experience (so 2000 total, but more like 2400 ish) or 2 years at a regional after getting hired with 1000.

No I wouldn't hire a new military pilot right out of UPT with 250 hours of jet time. They don't have the SA required to haul me or my family around without problems let alone when s#!t hits the fan. The military training enviroment is very canned and specific and doesn't teach the new pilot real world SA. That takes hundreds if not thousands more hours to accumulate. The heavy copilots in the Air Force have their hands held for quite a while before they are able to do unit level engine out work and many more manuevers that are non standard. Yeah they have the best training in the world by far, but are still not ready for the civil airlines as far as me or my family concerned. I already go out of my way to change a deadhead if I'm on Pinnacle because of these hiring practices.

I flew for a regional as a check airman and we had a 1000 hour minimum for new hires. As time went on I kept hearing my sim instructor pears talk about how it was getting harder and harder to send a new hire packing if they didn't cut the mustard and we never lowered our minimums. In particular we had the most problems with the Pan Am factory CFIs who came with minimum time. So I have to believe that the 250 hour buy your job guys are being taught the test and making it to the line with pressure from managment. You can't tell me that they have the SA expected of an airline pilot.

I don't blame the 200 hour new hire; I blame the managments for capitolizing on it, and pilots for not standing up to it. As far as a shortage of experienced pilots - not! There apparently is a shortage of pilots willing to work for food stamps so just lower the requirements so you don't have to pay anything. That's what is happening (ie. race to the bottom).

I wish we would have the 1000 hour minimum... Maybe instead of more RJ's they will get bigger planes at the mainline level and require less crews and give regionals a true hope for the major level. Instead of 2 RJ's- run 1 Bus.. 1 crew instead of 2, less demand=more competitive on the supply side=more experience before a 121 spot. i am sure that within a couple years things will come back up because the competition is going to really go up with majors hiring and the notion of 6 months from first flight to regional ground school and the idea of a super quick upgrade. It is a good time to get on though if I may say so myself. To be honest I didnt expect to get bites until I had over 1000 (as a bare min) and I was getting hits from the start at 850TT. I just hope it doesnt take an accident to highlight the flight time debate- but it seems thats how things work in aviation.

We've lost almost 100 pilots in the last 4 months (96 is the number I think, but not sure). Most of the pilots leaving are Capts. we also have a terrible contract with no end to negotiations in sight. AND to top it off, our upgrade time is pretty high sitting at 3500 and reducible to 3000 with 500 in type...why come here unless you can't get a job anywhere else b/c of time? The only other reason I can think of is if you live in MEM, MSP, or DTW. Also, we're getting 17 planes and can't properly staff the ones we currently have with enough cpts.

Why are you guys whining about lowering the upgrade requirements? There are a number of "regionals" out there whose only requirement to upgrade is ATP minimums. Why should Pinnacle be any different? Lowering the total time requirement seems like a good thing to me.....it means you can upgrade sooner! If a guy has ATP minimums and can pass the type ride, OE, etc., then why not let them be Captain?

I keep hoping the general public will figure out the dirty little secret of the "regionals" and the pay rates/duty hours involved for this pay. Maybe, just maybe then we can get the bought and paid for Repbublicrats to re-write the FARs and install an aviation "minimum wage"..

This has gone on far enough!

The problem is the public knows and just doesn't care.......