Going to Jail threats
 

Guys! You are not going to jail, for not doing something. An illegal job action was also taken in the 80's e.g. PATCO not one went to jail. Look, i'm not encouraging anything here but stop with the jail threats its BS. Sorry Super Moderator! I know you can be held liable for any such talk of anarchy about this industry, but you have no proof that the government has the ability to jail anyone for standing up for their rights or beliefs. Its you opinion and you entitled to it. But your wrong!

Again, nobody will ever go to jail for not doing something they don't want to do!

Kick me off admonish me IDK, but your no better then the guys spreading rumors of this crap!

You cannot go to jail for violating the RLA as an employee. It is a civil matter and a civil statute. Only a carrier and its agents can be prosecuted criminally. United States v. Jerry Winston, he operated a small regional air service in the 70's.

Even then the US Attorney's office states prosecuting an air carrier is an unreasonable burden on the justice system in their own manual! Unfortunately going to jail has just become folklore accepted as fact by ignorant pilots.

Courts can and will issue an injunction to return to work, and a violation of an injunction is contempt of court. Found in contempt and you can get jail time, but that's it! I say, "good luck with that, we're all in contempt, oh well."

Don't forget that the carrier can sue ALPA (or your union) for illegal job actions also. Just like what happened to AA/Reno and APA, where they found there was an illegal job action and APA paid out about half to AA, and the other half was achieved through concessions in their contract. Total loss was $45.6 million.

Exactly, being a civil statute the only purpose is to sue for monetary damages.

Delta sued 49 pilots for 1 million each for encouraging a illegal job action. ( no overtime)
You can also go to jail on a civil matter if a judge issues a injunction and it is not complied with.
Here is a nice summary of how devastating the PATCO strike was to organized labor.

Yet three decades later, with the economy shrinking or stagnant for nearly four years now and Reagan’s party moving even further to the right than where he stood, the long-term costs of his destruction of the union loom ever larger. It is clear now that the fallout from the strike has hurt workers and distorted our politics in ways Reagan himself did not advocate.

Although a conservative, Reagan often argued that private sector workers’ rights to organize were fundamental in a democracy. He not only made this point when supporting Lech Walesa’s anti-Communist Solidarity movement in Poland; he also boasted of being the first president of the Screen Actors Guild to lead that union in a strike. Over time, however, his crushing of the controllers’ walkout — which he believed was justified because federal workers were not allowed under the law to strike — has helped undermine the private-sector rights he once defended.

Workers in the private sector had used the strike as a tool of leverage in labor-management conflicts between World War II and 1981, repeatedly withholding their work to win fairer treatment from recalcitrant employers. But after Patco, that weapon was largely lost. Reagan’s unprecedented dismissal of skilled strikers encouraged private employers to do likewise. Phelps Dodge and International Paper were among the companies that imitated Reagan by replacing strikers rather than negotiating with them. Many other employers followed suit.

By 2010, the number of workers participating in walkouts was less than 2 percent of what it had been when Reagan led the actors’ strike in 1952. Lacking the leverage that strikes once provided, unions have been unable to pressure employers to increase wages as productivity rises. Inequality has ballooned to a level not seen since Reagan’s boyhood in the 1920s.

Although he opposed government strikes, Reagan supported government workers’ efforts to unionize and bargain collectively. As governor, he extended such rights in California. As president he was prepared to do the same. Not only did he court and win Patco’s endorsement during his 1980 campaign, he directed his negotiators to go beyond his legal authority to offer controllers a pay raise before their strike — the first time a president had ever offered so much to a federal employees’ union.

But the impact of the Patco strike on Reagan’s fellow Republicans has long since overshadowed his own professed beliefs regarding public sector unions. Over time the rightward-shifting Republican Party has come to view Reagan’s mass firings not as a focused effort to stop one union from breaking the law — as Reagan portrayed it — but rather as a blow against public sector unionism itself.

Might make sense for Delta to sue their pilots for that much seeing as how they might get something. Sueing regional FOs? Barking up the wrong tree haha.

As I said, they can take from the ALPA general fund for the union, and then the rest can be taken through concessions.

There is a way to go about doing something. Want to do it? Do it legally.

Get sued for an illegal job action and see if you ever get a decent job doing anything again.

I'm not planning on doing anything illegal, I was just laughing at the thought of suing a regional FO for a $1,000,000.

If ALPA superstar poster boy Timmy M can become gainfully employed again after his shenanigans, I'm pretty sure anybody could.

Sue an RJ FO for $1,000,000? Might as well make it a billion. You can sue people for however much you want. Just because you win doesn't mean you'll ever see a penny. Reference the civil suite won by Nicole Simpsons' family vs OJ Simpson. They won a 33.5 million dollar settlement. I am not sure they have ever seen a penny of that money yet.

How many of the PATCO strikers kept their jobs after the strike? Exactly where is PATCO today? Don't think for a minute that ANY pilot group, mainline or regional, has the leverage we think we have. However, you are free to exercise your rights. Just don't be suprised to find out you don't have any rights to the job you currently enjoy.

Just want to say, nicely written and informative.

It's from an NY Times article.

When you do that, you owe it to the source to attribute it.

Stealing Intellectual Property isn't right?

YEARRGH!! It be piracy!
http://gamerekon.com/wp-content/uplo...on-770x345.png

You made my day. Thanks for making me look like an idiot off the internet as well.

Don't tell me. Tell sailingfun.

Just to refresh everyone's memory about PATCO. PATCO workers were FEDERAL EMPLOYEES who took an oath NOT to strike. Till this day I support Regan's decision to fire them... It's part of being an American. Sorry.

I agree, apples and oranges. Allot of good point by everyone!

I hope this urban legend has been debunked. However, ALPA is more afraid of this subject then any airline because in the end their the ones with our CASH!

Anyone who thinks their IP address ad hard email address used to register and use this site can't be subpoenaed is naive. Anyone who threatens illegal job actions on the interwebz is stoooopid. You CAN be personally liable for damages, and they CAN garnish your wages for the rest of your life to recover a judgement. Quit being internet tough guys with your illegal work action threats and just go to work and do your jobs the way you're supposed to!

I haven't seen anyone on this forum state they are participating in an illegal work action. That would be foolish. Simply talking about the existence of work actions is not illegal. Participating in the action IS. Our First Amendment protects the right to discuss and share thoughts freely in our society. If push came to shove and they were awarded a judgement against an individual pilot, that pilot is free to exercise his rights under the US Bankruptcy code, as their judgement is not a priority debt (student loan, support, alimony, etc).

They are interested in "deep pockets" to make restitution. Hence usually listing ALPA as the first defendant. They just have to prove ALPA was aware under section 6 of the Norris-LaGuardia Act.

"No officer or member of any association or organization, and no association or organization participating or interested in a labor dispute, shall be held responsible or liable in any court of the United States for the unlawful acts of individual officers, members, or agents, except upon clear proof of actual participation in, or actual authorization of, such acts, or of ratification of such acts after actual knowledge thereof."

Over the last couple of months, posts have periodically popped up here and a Facebook group called "Stop The Whipsaw", organizing some sort of regional pilot sick out in September. They apparently even registered a web domain for it! The mods have done a good job of deleting the posts here. I have inside information that UAL, DAL, A4A, and the RAA have already begun court proceedings against those responsible for organizing it.

I have seen that site. Believe it or not there is no basis for a lawsuit until they can prove damages. It would be frivolous at this point. The burden of proof that the said defendants caused harm to the company would be difficult or impossible to prove, because no flights were canceled and nobody has participated in any action as of yet. The standard of proof in a civil case is 'clear and convincing evidence' or 'the preponderance of evidence'. Until any said sickout, no harm has actually taken place. Therefore there is nothing to sue for at this point. Discussion groups are not illegal. If anything they could be preparing to file an action right after such event, requesting an emergency injunction. But they'll have to wait and see what happens.

I understand that. Apparently they have sought injunction barring any potential sick outs, and have subpoenaed the information of the organizers to seek future damages if one occurs. Preemptive strike, pretty common in legal circles, Professor.

First they need to file a cause of action, and specify damages. They cannot just go to a judge and state, "we think something is going to happen, please help us!" They will get laughed out of chambers. They will have to wait until something actually happens causing them harm.

They are probably sending cease and desist notices hoping the organizers of these websites get scared off and go away. The legal system unfortunately does not work with that kind of speed or efficiency. Courts are inundated. Professor no, law student in a law office on days off, yes.

Wait, you are calling for a sick out in September Tony. (sarcasm)

That's adorable. Does that mean what you're saying constitutes bona fide legal advice?

If ALPA is not the organizer behind this supposed sick out, nor supportive of it, how could they be held accountable for the actions of individuals?

I thought I had copied it such that the NY times was on the top. It is in fact a NY times article.