View Poll Results: Should Regional Airlines Flatten Pay Scales
Yes, and I am a Regional Airline Captain
10
6.02%
Yes, and I am a Regional Airline First Officer
39
23.49%
Yes, and I am a Prospective Regional Airline Pilot
7
4.22%
Yes, and I am a Major Airline Pilot
11
6.63%
Yes, and I am a Non Airline Pro Pilot
6
3.61%
No, and I am a Regional Airline Captain
29
17.47%
No, and I am a Regional Airline First Officer
36
21.69%
No, and I am a Prospective Regional Airline Pilot
1
0.60%
No, and I am a Major Airline Pilot
22
13.25%
No, and I am a Non Airline Pro Pilot
5
3.01%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll
Should Regional Airlines Flatten Pay Scales
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 179
Yes, "regional" airline FOs should be paid more, and yes, "regional" airline captains should be paid well. No need to take from the captains just to give the FOs a decent wage.
I agree with tom11011 about starting wages: if starting wages weren't so abysmal, it wouldn't be so prohibitive to leave a crappy company and start over somewhere else. It would give pilots more leverage, and we wouldn't have to play their fear games of "we'll shut you down and you'll have to start over somewhere else for $21,000" every single time they try to squeeze more concessions out of us.
I agree with tom11011 about starting wages: if starting wages weren't so abysmal, it wouldn't be so prohibitive to leave a crappy company and start over somewhere else. It would give pilots more leverage, and we wouldn't have to play their fear games of "we'll shut you down and you'll have to start over somewhere else for $21,000" every single time they try to squeeze more concessions out of us.
#62
Read before voting. Identities are hidden in the poll.
Everyone tends to agree that regional airline FO's should be paid more money at regional airlines, even airline management. But how far would the regional pilot group as a whole be willing to go? I suppose the answer to this question might have something to do with whether you believe a regional airline is a place you can make a career at or whether you believe its 'up and out' only.
Even if your regional airline had the best intentions towards its pilots, they don't get to set the ticket prices. They are constrained by the pot of money given to them by their parent airline. And your airline management doesn't even decide how the money is divided up, the pilots do.
Get a bigger pot of money you say from the parent airline? Be careful because if you ask for too much, other regional airlines will fly right in under the radar and underbid you because they can afford to do so with newly found pilot concession money. Some call this type of pilot affliction SJS.
So could you support a flattened pay scale where Captains and FO's make the same amount of money? Where only years of service pays higher? Where size of equipment doesn't matter and is determined by mainline pilot scope provisions? Potentially, it could look like this- a pay scale that starts at $40,000/yr and tops out in year 10 at $80,000/yr, regardless of seat. That's a $4000 per year raise.
What are some of the benefits you ask? What if you have to start over at a new regional airline because you want to move, or you hate the company, or the company goes out of business, etc... think about how much easier it would be to do just that. Right now, you are screwed, it's HARD to leave after the first year. And think about this, the company is now more on the hook to make the place better otherwise they will have to deal with FO attrition and all the training costs of that attrition when pilots decide airline B is slightly better. All of the sudden they have a vested interest in keeping pilots happy if they know pilots have other better options and do not have to take such a massive pay hit to keep them from leaving. Pilots become less of a slave to the company.
The poll question is "Should Regional Airlines Flatten Pay Scales".
Everyone tends to agree that regional airline FO's should be paid more money at regional airlines, even airline management. But how far would the regional pilot group as a whole be willing to go? I suppose the answer to this question might have something to do with whether you believe a regional airline is a place you can make a career at or whether you believe its 'up and out' only.
Even if your regional airline had the best intentions towards its pilots, they don't get to set the ticket prices. They are constrained by the pot of money given to them by their parent airline. And your airline management doesn't even decide how the money is divided up, the pilots do.
Get a bigger pot of money you say from the parent airline? Be careful because if you ask for too much, other regional airlines will fly right in under the radar and underbid you because they can afford to do so with newly found pilot concession money. Some call this type of pilot affliction SJS.
So could you support a flattened pay scale where Captains and FO's make the same amount of money? Where only years of service pays higher? Where size of equipment doesn't matter and is determined by mainline pilot scope provisions? Potentially, it could look like this- a pay scale that starts at $40,000/yr and tops out in year 10 at $80,000/yr, regardless of seat. That's a $4000 per year raise.
What are some of the benefits you ask? What if you have to start over at a new regional airline because you want to move, or you hate the company, or the company goes out of business, etc... think about how much easier it would be to do just that. Right now, you are screwed, it's HARD to leave after the first year. And think about this, the company is now more on the hook to make the place better otherwise they will have to deal with FO attrition and all the training costs of that attrition when pilots decide airline B is slightly better. All of the sudden they have a vested interest in keeping pilots happy if they know pilots have other better options and do not have to take such a massive pay hit to keep them from leaving. Pilots become less of a slave to the company.
The poll question is "Should Regional Airlines Flatten Pay Scales".
Several of the Comair guys that were 20+ year guys there mentioned that if they had to do over again, they would have fought to increase pay at the fo level there, but also urge alpa national to create one for for all regionals. The obvious reason is they are starting over at extremely low wages. 5-10 years ago this wasn't even a thought for them. How many of us are at a place we think is fine, but next year we are in their shoes?
Another problem is not just pay, but qol items to. If one company has guarantee of 12 days off a month and another company has 10 days off the company providing 12 off a month has a higher cost due to more staffing needs. Contract language has a very high importance just like pay.
It would be good if we could get to a world of decent pay for first year guys, but defining good pay is different for everyone. One thing is certain - it's not right anyone starts at current pay at regionals. This shouldn't matter if you are new out of flight school or a Chuck Yeager. We all deserve a professional wage.
#63
Well why are regional CAs entitled to such high wages? The only reason you are a regional CA for more than 5 years is that you are a failure - a lifer plain and simple.
It's not about FOs being entitled to better money, it's the amount of idiots at the top who can't hack it so they stay safe in their tiny RJ cockpit getting fluff checkrides from their buddies.
Keep the pay scales the same, just force out loser lifers.
For every CA that has a low time pilot he or she was baby sitting, I have a CA that would have gotten us violated.
But the guys here don't seem to realize violations come in pairs or that at an airline, the only difference between a CA and an experienced FO is their spot on the list.
Just ask all those entitled Pinnacle FOs (displaced CAs) slinging gear for junior Colgan CAs...
Yes, it's all the FOs fault, they are entitled brats from the Me generation.
It's not about FOs being entitled to better money, it's the amount of idiots at the top who can't hack it so they stay safe in their tiny RJ cockpit getting fluff checkrides from their buddies.
Keep the pay scales the same, just force out loser lifers.
For every CA that has a low time pilot he or she was baby sitting, I have a CA that would have gotten us violated.
But the guys here don't seem to realize violations come in pairs or that at an airline, the only difference between a CA and an experienced FO is their spot on the list.
Just ask all those entitled Pinnacle FOs (displaced CAs) slinging gear for junior Colgan CAs...
Yes, it's all the FOs fault, they are entitled brats from the Me generation.
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,936
#65
Really? It has nothing to do with 9/11, the economy tanking in 08, age 65 etc? I'd be more than happy to put my record up against yours any day (just kidding….I obviously have 3+ pink slips, no degree and multiple DUI's). So why are you still in the right seat of a regional 6 or 7 years? Must be a loser or Blue, Virgin etc would have hired you
Last edited by mooney; 09-01-2014 at 04:23 PM.
#66
read as….get out of MY seat...
so there are circumstances beyond the control of an FO that keeps them as FO's more than 5 years, but not Captains? do tell…..
get out of YOUR seat…you said it….
get out of YOUR seat…you said it….
#67
Really? It has nothing to do with 9/11, the economy tanking in 08, age 65 etc? I'd be more than happy to put my record up against yours any day (just kidding….I obviously have 3+ pink slips, no degree and multiple DUI's). So why are you still in the right seat of a regional 6 or 7 years? Must be a loser or Blue, Virgin etc would have hired you
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,193
Why did you accept the job if you are so unhappy with the salary that goes along with it? Do you have nothing else going on for yourself? As long as chumps like you show up for the jobs then the low pay will continue. You are not the solution, you're the problem. You must be a liberal/socialists since you are so in favor of an Obama style spreading out the wealth.
Not true. While a small group may be responsible for negotiating pay scales, each pilot, regardless of seat, carries equal weight when the whole group votes to ratify or decline them.
Not all of them. You seem to fit that mold, however. It is (sadly) ironic that your attempt at sarcasm, at least in your case, hit so close to objective truth.
Not all of them. You seem to fit that mold, however. It is (sadly) ironic that your attempt at sarcasm, at least in your case, hit so close to objective truth.
No but I'm God's gift to aviation. Really, I'm just an FO with an opinion like the rest of you. But for some reason, again I'm the socialist, and I am the guy who hasn't had to fly with crappy FOs. It's totally different see - if a CA is trying to kill me I should sit on my hands, because HE signed for the plane, I didn't.
If you don't like the pay why do you show up for the job? Look in the mirror, you're the one responsible for the pay. No one forced you to work for the rate you signed up for.
Why does the job pay $22 an hour to start. Because there are plenty of pilots willing to accept it. -- including you.
RJ captain should pay $100 an hour minimum. After all that's only second year FO pay at most legacies. Why does it pay less. Because 99% of the regional pilots have agreed to less.
Why does the job pay $22 an hour to start. Because there are plenty of pilots willing to accept it. -- including you.
RJ captain should pay $100 an hour minimum. After all that's only second year FO pay at most legacies. Why does it pay less. Because 99% of the regional pilots have agreed to less.
#70
Simples, cencal, don't show up for your next trip, submit a resignation. I don't think you're a socialist, just not a realist. The Company and ALPA realized they could get F/Os to fly for a deep discount compared to the majors, you and thousands of others said, "ok, for a chance at T7 major captain, I accept these wages". Stop accepting, game over.
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