Importance of PIC???
 

This thread will be closed soon lol. But I personally think the PIC time will be a great asset on a resume especially when you'll be going against guys with thousands of SIC time. The guys at regionals that will never see the left seat take comfort in the few that have gotten to the majors with no PIC time.

Great question! Put it this way: PIC is NOT necessary if you are well-Connected, are a minority(sorry, but it's true), network well(LOTS and LOTS of a$$ kissing, or have extremely dumb luck.

This is pretty much the truth...no PIC needed for women, certain minorities, and the connected children of legacy employees. I've personally observed multiple data points confirming this first hand in the last few months...so it's still alive and well.

Average white guy...better look for an upgrade, and check-airman status.

121 Jet Time is much more valuable than PIC time in a turboprop or a small corporate jet. Sorry, but it is true. There are thousands of regional pilots with a couple thousand PIC 121 time in jets that are applying to the majors. They will get called before someone with PIC in a king air.

Currently, you have almost NO chance of getting hired with a major unless you have 121 jet time (PIC or SIC), or substantial military experience. I recently talked to a check airman that is on the hiring committee at a major, and he said that they would hire a FO at a regional if he had significant experience. His thought was that a major airline FO is going to be an FO for at least 8-10 years. They are going to train that FO to be a Captain the way that they want to. They don't care about how you did it at the regionals, they want you to do it their way.

@rick how many times have you flown with a black pilot or a woman? If you can count that on two hands I will be surprised. Tons of average white guys with no PIC are getting hired..... That's a fact as well

You absolutely do not have to have prior 121/military experience to get hired at a major. A friend of mine recently had some jet PIC flying a corporate jet with zero airline experience and got hired at USAirways. I will not disagree with the fact that having some 121 time with PIC helps.

LIES! :D

They are not interviewing without prior 121 time - haven't for more than a year.

Yeah, because 95% of the people in the cockpit of a major airline 757 are not two old white guys...:confused:

Here's the deal, pilots are convinced their resumes and applications are only going to be read over by Chuck Yeager and Buzz Aldrin, they don't realize that it goes to HR and these companies have formalized processes these days for hiring, rather than a dart-board or picking CPT America. So while PIC will help, there are plenty of other things that do, like being a check-pilot and anything else that will get you additional aviation experience or show that you are an all-around good guy for the company. If you do nothing but fly for a regional and have nothing but your 4 year degree, then yes, you might need a lot of PIC time.

[QUOTE=AboveAndBeyond;1744290]LIES! :D

They are not interviewing without prior 121 time - haven't for more than a year.[/

Sorry to burst your little bubble that you live in, but it in fact is not a lie.

Whoaa there nellie! To deny the impact of affirmative action is to deny reality. YOU must vote with a certain party that ends with the letters "ic".
Remember, whites are still north of 70% of the US population, so it's only fitting that they should represent most of the slots. Also keeping in mind that aviation is still a "grass roots" organization.
You keep lying to yourself, okay buddy?

Yes, more than two hands worth. What I'm saying is they are getting hired without TPIC...commonly with less than 2000 121 SIC.

But everybody else needs TPIC.

Not debating anyone's sensitivities, just stating the facts observed in my crew room.

Not sure if you've noticed, but aviation is pretty much just old white guys. I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with hiring practices, I'm just saying that if there were these major pushes to hire only under qualified minorities and women over the last 20 years and if all these minorities without PIC were getting hired, the cockpits would something other than chock-stuffed with old white guys.

Hmm, I wonder why I'm still at Silver since I'm such a hot commodity....

Do you have 1000 turbojet SIC?

I know several women and minorities at my previous company, both Captains and FOs, all with thousands of turbine time. Their phones are not ringing. Just because you hear of a few that get in with low time it doesn't mean all of them are and for every low time woman/minority that gets hired there's at least one well connected white guy that got the job with low hours too.

Yessir!

Uncle Hulas Refugee

Well, a guy in my office just got a CJO w/o 121 time, admittedly slathers of international jet PIC corporate jet time.

Sad, but true. And like when I agree with your points in another thread, of the last 3 hiring pushes that have taken place at the majors, this is the one that is placing the LEAST value on PIC it would seem.

True. And diversity is a GOOD THING. However, diversity just for the sake of diversity is NOT.

The FACT is, outside the majority demographic/NW-NM are culled from a much smaller application silo. And YES, they can get a TBNT after interviewing ALSO.

It's ALSO fact that one can get hired without TPIC and do JUST FINE. However, for RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW, the majority of those in new hire class at (insert legacy here) have it. Those without it make of a small sample of the demographic of the new hire group. Strange, I have more than one friend hired recently at the "big three". In their classes (at least), they were in the average of the civilian experience range of the group. They ALL had over 10K TT, with over half of the that TPIC time. EVERYONE in the class had been a CA/AC commander. One was in their mid 30's with the mentioned flight times, and was the YOUNGEST in their new hire class. However, the class before theirs wasn't the same, nor was the one after. But the point still stands.

For RIGHT HERE, and RIGHT NOW, the legacies are a ways off from just "cold calling" pilots en masse that don't TPIC time.

To the OP, get hired, get your time to meet the mins of where you're applying. If upgrade is too far off, start improving your resume in other ways if you can. Take on a ground/FTD instructor position if you can. Or, a position on a safety committee, whatever. And as always, NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK!!!!!

And I KNOW I'll take flame for this. And it'll FOR SURE come from someone that has NEVER been a CA/AC. Being a CA previously makes one a better FO when they move on.

Diversity is racism. We are all human beings. Period. Why not start giving jobs to people with blue eyes? See how ridiculous AA is?
As far as networking: what a crock! You mean politics; that's really what it is!

Bitter much, white dude ?
" Lighten up, Francis......one of these men (snork- or women) might save your life one of these days.
(Then again, one of them might not...)"

Yeah, exactly. You know the truth; sarcasm can't hide that. And who says I'm white?!?

You do....with each and every embarrassing reference you make to race and gender.
True story.

Racism is a terrible thing. Affirmative action and things like it were put into place because "minorities" have been locked out and discriminated against in our country for centuries. That is the truth. In before the lock.

It's REALLY hard to try to convince brain washed people anything. EDUCATE: we are ALL one race

No, that's NOT the truth; you know this! AA was put into place for POLITICAL reasons. Once again you know this. Cognitive dissonance

Your name describes it all.

It's as if these kind of threads give a certain few people the excuse they need to rail against the world for the injustices they've experienced. It's not about AA, it's about people that blame all their misfortunes on it. It's not part of the discussion because there's no evidence (stats, etc) to support people being hired right now on the basis of it, but again, a little comment is all a few people need to "go off" and start whining about the injustice of the world. Get over it. I'm no more a fan of AA than anyone else here, but a few people are dead set that there's some giant conspiracy against them...

What is the history of race relations in America towards minorities? We do have an ugly past in our country in that regard. Perhaps you need a history lesson.

Cute......born on second base thinking he hit a double, yet screams 'cognitive dissonance'.
You aren't terribly good at this, are you ?

Try to keep up, Loon; consider stepping away from the keyboard- do come back when/if you have anything of substance to offer regarding the importance of PIC time. Your mental lethargy, embarrassing though it be, really does little to offer any insight into anything beyond your bigotry.

The true story is something that you know nothing about. Seek the truth and you will see how GREAT it is.

SMH.......dismissed.

so much for safety first

No two people are the same. I look forward to the day when we are all equal.

Well..this escalated quickly

And so comes the end of this thread.