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-   -   3M vs. ZK: Who will be the first to fall? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/84569-3m-vs-zk-who-will-first-fall.html)

skypilot35 10-20-2014 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by IBPilot (Post 1750042)
Ironically, you could have looked up the codes in about 1/4 of the time it took you to complain about using/not knowing them :D

Irony: using words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning; containing or exemplifying irony: an ironic novel; an ironic remark.

FaceBiter 10-20-2014 07:46 PM

This thread does not deliver. Try again.

OnCenterline 10-21-2014 03:09 AM

To get this back on track, I will wager that Great Lakes and Silver are beginning the inevitable role of the law of unintended consequences to the new post-Colgan rules requiring airline captains to log 1,000 hours of SIC time before upgrading.

It's one of the few sections in that law that actually makes sense, yet the ramifications are huge. If they need to upgrade people, and can't, then they can't staff.

The EAS program will (hopefully) begin a necessary slide to oblivion as a result.

Flightcap 10-21-2014 03:16 AM

Guessing that other companies operating EAS lines under a 135 cert will pick up the slack. Lakes isn't the only part 135 EAS carrier out there that pays ridiculous wages, it's just the biggest and best-known.

Bassman1985 10-21-2014 09:55 AM


Originally Posted by OnCenterline (Post 1750250)
To get this back on track, I will wager that Great Lakes and Silver are beginning the inevitable role of the law of unintended consequences to the new post-Colgan rules requiring airline captains to log 1,000 hours of SIC time before upgrading.

It's one of the few sections in that law that actually makes sense, yet the ramifications are huge. If they need to upgrade people, and can't, then they can't staff.

The EAS program will (hopefully) begin a necessary slide to oblivion as a result.

Silver's issue with staffing isn't upgrades, it's new FOs. They hired street captains in 2012, that's been the go-to staffing strategy when upgrades are too quick to promote from within. New FOs come there now, realize that they won't upgrade before the end of the decade, get sick of the horrible treatment by mgmt and scheduling, combined with the low pay, and bail after a few months when they get the call from the better company that didn't call before they had an ATP and a type rating. 3M has become a place to enhance your resume to move on to another regional, not a major. This pattern means they are shelling out major $$$ for training to replace all the attrition, but it's all off the bottom half of the list. Even a 12k signing bonus isn't enough to keep people around. Give it enough time, and they are going to fold. Great Mistakes may beat them to it, but it will be a close race.

IBPilot 10-21-2014 03:07 PM


Originally Posted by skypilot35 (Post 1750184)
Irony: using words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning; containing or exemplifying irony: an ironic novel; an ironic remark.

You missed the point totally ;)

Allegheny 10-22-2014 04:59 AM

I am not int the regional industry and so I am not up on all the details of that segment of the industry. I went to the Silver Airlines site and wikepedia and found that Silver received over 20 million in essential service fees. They are also receive fee for departure income from code sharing with United an other carriers. Isn't that enough income to keep the company solvent? Or is it simply a matter of not being able to staff the airline with pilots?

As for Great Lakes, their web site states the following:

Attention Future Airline Crew-members:
Great Lakes Airlines is pleased to announce on March 18, 2014, the FAA approved our FAR 135 Operation Specifications addition to our current FAR 121 Certificate. To clarify, Great Lakes Airlines does not have a separate “135 Certificate”, but an allowance through our Operations Specifications to conduct scheduled airline operations under our current 121 Certificate allowances using the Beech 1900D fleet.
This new undertaking allows us to hire First Officers meeting FAR 135 qualifications. They will gain the flight time and experience required for the Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) or Restricted-ATP (R-ATP) certification requirements. Once they meet these requirements they will then have the ability to start building the required time to upgrade to a 121 Captain.



I guess this is the condition that they keep the aircraft to 9 pax or less? Is that correct? With the income from essential air service, guaranteed, and allowing for low time pilots I don't see why they would not be able to staff. Are they that bad to their people?


Again sorry if I seem out of it but from a basic business standpoint this doesn't make sense.

ClickClickBoom 10-22-2014 07:37 AM

Doesn't 3M make tape and stuff?

tom11011 10-22-2014 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by snippercr (Post 1750165)
It took me about 25-30 seconds to type my response. 1/4 of that time would be approximately 6 1/4 second and 7 1/2 seconds respectively. Unfortunately, it actually would have taken LONGER to go to google and google "3M airline code", click "Google Search" and view the appropriate links to read which were which.

So no... you are wrong.

Also, that is not ironic.

You fail x2.

:D

Lol, good one :D

tom11011 10-22-2014 08:02 AM


Originally Posted by yimke (Post 1749884)
A grim email was sent out by union leadership at 3M recently talking about the future. Sounds like a 5 month plan.

Can you post it?


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