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Too old to start??
This will be my first forum post here in Airline Pilot Central so I figured I'd attempt to make it a good one. Currently, I'm 32 years old, been in the USAF for 14 years, C-9A/ C-130E/H flying crew chief, currently an E-6 and have a little less than 6 years until I retire from active duty - at the tender age of 38. :eek: I'm starting my flying lessons this month, going to start out with twice a month here in Germany at Coleman Barracks in Mannheim at first and see if I can increase the frequency gradually. I'm under the impression that GI's can use their GI Bill for flight training, which will pay a certain percentage of their flight training after private pilot so if that is the case I might be able to pull this off before I'm 40 (CFI/CFII/Commercial/ME). My aspirations to be an airline pilot are quite lofty, since I am getting quite a late start in the game but I caught the bug when I was a flight engineer on C-130s back in the day, got my 'air legs' - I've been hooked ever since. I'm a grown man, been on the block for a minute now so I am one of those "oldheads" in my own right so I'm not expecting all the answers or for anyone to make my mind up for me, but it is you folks here in the forums who are there and have been there - I've been reading these forums for about 2 months now, you folks have a wealth of information to give, from the puddle jumping 16 year old in the 172, to the Navy E-2 guy flying orbits; from the CFI teaching the "puddle jumping 16 year old in the 172" to the big ballin' super duper senior 747 captains. I have a plan to get this accomplished, but I would like to hear from the professionals....
Feel free to sound off. Fly safe. Always. |
If you were to post in the cargo forums, or even ask the Airtran, JB, SW, posters what the age range is in a newhire class you will probably be surprised. If you are getting out at 38, if you dont slack and make it to a major/legacy/cargo carrier by say 42-45, I seriously doubt you will be an age minority.
Good luck. |
you are not to old. If you retire at 38 and have your ratings by then you can make it work. Hopefully the FAA will raise the age this month to 65 and that will give you a little boost.
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I was 35 when I started interviewing with regionals. I was never the most senior one in the class. In fact the place I chose to work for various reasons, quality of life and pay being neither, had me #5 out of 12 in my class.
If you want to stack boxes until you turn 70 at the grocery store that is fine but if you got the bug and want to enjoy everything that aviaiton has too offer it is never to late in my opinion. If you are looking to make 5 million dollars by the end of your career Aviaiton is not the best choice. Get the ratings ASAP. I believe the GI bill pays 40% after private. It may even pay for a school like ATP. A place like that by time you retire should get from Zero to Hero in under about 9 months. You'll bang down a thousand hours a year and upgrade in 3 years at most regionals. Maybe sooner if you go with a Turbo Prop carrier ;) Get the 121 PIC and move on to a company Flying bigger gear for the next ten to 15 years and you'll make enough to survive/save and enjoy. Seeing as though you have worked most of your life, vs most of the guys here will cry about how bad it blows you'll find that it isn't hard, pays ok and can be a lot of fun if you make it. Good Luck -Grounded- |
I'm a regional pilot who used the GI Bill for part of my training, and also worked at a flight school where I processed MGIB paperwork for the students.
Some comments on the GI Bill: You need to get your PPL on your own nickel. Most flight training is done under the regulations of FAR part 91 (actually 14 CFR 91), which allows a lot of flexibility. The VA will pay 60% of most, but not all training costs for post-PPL. In order to protect veterans, the VA requires that in order to use the GI Bill you must attend a part 141 school. There are a number of issues here: 1) Part 141 is more regimented than 91, and must use a set curriculum. This is good in some ways, but also reduces your flexibility. If you are a self-starter and can study well on your own, 141 will probably force you to attend more formal training than you would have needed otherwise. 2) Part 141 allows you to take your "checkride" from an in-house examiner. Also you cannot fail a 141 checkride, they are either complete or incomplete, so there is no record of failing an FAA checkride 3) Part 141 allows you to complete ratings with less flight hours than part 61, but many people actually need more than the minimum hours anyway. 4) Most schools charge more for 141, so even if you can do it in fewer hours than 91, you still pay. Some unscrupulous schools charge WAY more for 141, since few people except VA students use it...basically you pay the same out-of-pocket as you would have without the MGIB, and the school keeps your VA money! When talking to schools, try to avoid letting them know you are military until you get quotes on everything. Bottom, line MGIB is a great deal for college, but not so much for flight training. Normally I would say save the MGIB for your college degree, but at your age you may be planning on staying at the regionals in which case the degree is not mandatory (but helpful at the better regionals). If you want to work for a major airline, you WILL need a degree, regardless of what anyone may tell you. If that is your goal try your d*mndest to get all of your ratings (including CFI/CFII/MEI) and either start instructing before you retire, or be ready to start instructing the day after you retire. Age 65 may help you in this regard. |
Go for it! Just be ready when you retire from military so you can have a quick transition.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 101402)
I'm a regional pilot who used the GI Bill for part of my training, and also worked at a flight school where I processed MGIB paperwork for the students.
Some comments on the GI Bill: You need to get your PPL on your own nickel. Most flight training is done under the regulations of FAR part 91 (actually 14 CFR 91), which allows a lot of flexibility. The VA will pay 60% of most, but not all training costs for post-PPL. In order to protect veterans, the VA requires that in order to use the GI Bill you must attend a part 141 school. There are a number of issues here: 1) Part 141 is more regimented than 91, and must use a set curriculum. This is good in some ways, but also reduces your flexibility. If you are a self-starter and can study well on your own, 141 will probably force you to attend more formal training than you would have needed otherwise. 2) Part 141 allows you to take your "checkride" from an in-house examiner. Also you cannot fail a 141 checkride, they are either complete or incomplete, so there is no record of failing an FAA checkride 3) Part 141 allows you to complete ratings with less flight hours than part 61, but many people actually need more than the minimum hours anyway. 4) Most schools charge more for 141, so even if you can do it in fewer hours than 91, you still pay. Some unscrupulous schools charge WAY more for 141, since few people except VA students use it...basically you pay the same out-of-pocket as you would have without the MGIB, and the school keeps your VA money! When talking to schools, try to avoid letting them know you are military until you get quotes on everything. Bottom, line MGIB is a great deal for college, but not so much for flight training. Normally I would say save the MGIB for your college degree, but at your age you may be planning on staying at the regionals in which case the degree is not mandatory (but helpful at the better regionals). If you want to work for a major airline, you WILL need a degree, regardless of what anyone may tell you. If that is your goal try your d*mndest to get all of your ratings (including CFI/CFII/MEI) and either start instructing before you retire, or be ready to start instructing the day after you retire. Age 65 may help you in this regard. Yep, I'm here in Germany for 3 of these last 6 years on active duty, I'll have a bachelors degree from Embry Riddle by the end of next year, at the rate I'm going. The MGIB will probably lay in the cut for the most part until I need it because tuition assistance covers the costs of classes when you're on active duty. Good lookin' out on the differences between 91 and 141 - I'm going to look up the FARs and find out more and see what info I can shake down from the VA. |
Originally Posted by STILL GROUNDED
(Post 101349)
I was 35 when I started interviewing with regionals. I was never the most senior one in the class. In fact the place I chose to work for various reasons, quality of life and pay being neither, had me #5 out of 12 in my class.
If you want to stack boxes until you turn 70 at the grocery store that is fine but if you got the bug and want to enjoy everything that aviaiton has too offer it is never to late in my opinion. If you are looking to make 5 million dollars by the end of your career Aviaiton is not the best choice. Get the ratings ASAP. I believe the GI bill pays 40% after private. It may even pay for a school like ATP. A place like that by time you retire should get from Zero to Hero in under about 9 months. You'll bang down a thousand hours a year and upgrade in 3 years at most regionals. Maybe sooner if you go with a Turbo Prop carrier ;) Get the 121 PIC and move on to a company Flying bigger gear for the next ten to 15 years and you'll make enough to survive/save and enjoy. Seeing as though you have worked most of your life, vs most of the guys here will cry about how bad it blows you'll find that it isn't hard, pays ok and can be a lot of fun if you make it. Good Luck -Grounded- Yeah, jets are cool but I'm partial to turboprops for obvious reasons :D . Plus that new Bombardier Q400 looks and sounds like it's the one hitter quitter..a straight knockout! I figure if I can fix jets and fly into combat zones armed with a toolbox in one hand and a pistol in the other, being a civilian pilot can't be all bad. With that being said I don't expect it or the road to becoming a pilot to always be fun or easy...but I do believe in that it is very possible for me to get down to business and "do the d*mn thang". |
Originally Posted by HerkFCC
(Post 101517)
Yeah, jets are cool but I'm partial to turboprops for obvious reasons :D .
Plus that new Bombardier Q400 looks and sounds like it's the one hitter quitter..a straight knockout! I figure if I can fix jets and fly into combat zones armed with a toolbox in one hand and a pistol in the other, being a civilian pilot can't be all bad. With that being said I don't expect it or the road to becoming a pilot to always be fun or easy...but I do believe in that it is very possible for me to get down to business and "do the d*mn thang". |
you would be a shoe in for Netjets, and other frax. you can work as long as you have a first class medical. I just flew with one of our guys that is 71 yo!!! he isn't planning on retiring anytime soon. heck he makes 130k and works 21 weeks a year why quit??
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I say go for it. If it is something that you really want to do then you ought to do it. I do not think that you are too old. At the 141 school that I work at we have quite a few people who use there GI money to pay for their training. But like rickair said you are a little bit limited at a 141 school. The pace may be a little slower than your liking. We take you from 0 hours to CFI and it takes 1.5 years. That is flying 4 days a week which is dueable. So just do your research. Best of luck to you.
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Well, I'm on my way..
Signed up with the Aero Club at Coleman Barracks in Mannheim today, first flight with them is on Saturday. As they said in Survival school: "small victories". |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 101402)
2) Part 141 allows you to take your "checkride" from an in-house examiner. Also you cannot fail a 141 checkride, they are either complete or incomplete, so there is no record of failing an FAA checkride
Actually there are very few 141 schools where you do an in-house checkride. Most programs still require going to a pilot examiner. BTW, the in-house schools will be very over priced. |
I was 38 when hired by Continental. There were guys much older than me in my class. There are other jobs too. Find what you love to do and go for it. Don't be picky; flying is flying. Move up when you can. Move where the job is (I Know a lot of guys not willing to relocate- they don't fly now). I moved from CA to RI for my first airline job (Continental Express). Good luck.
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Originally Posted by sflpilot
(Post 122144)
Actually there are very few 141 schools where you do an in-house checkride. Most programs still require going to a pilot examiner. BTW, the in-house schools will be very over priced.
All this info, and instructions on how to fill out the 8710, are in the examiner's handbook. Unfortunately many examiners don't know or bother with the proper procedures for a 141 "failure", and just process it like 61. This is not really fair to the student who jumped through the 141 hoops, and the school should not allow this to happen. |
I am in the same boat as you, just a few years ahead. Check out my thread in the training section "Navy guy w ??s"
I am going for it and if that is what you want to do, then I think you should go for it too. I know a lot of people on here will tell you to run away but if this is what you want, then go for it. There will also be a lot of guys on here that help and point you in the right diretion. A big plus is that when you are a FO somewhere making $20K a year you will have your military retirement to offset it. Good luck. |
Originally Posted by sflpilot
(Post 122144)
Actually there are very few 141 schools where you do an in-house checkride. Most programs still require going to a pilot examiner. BTW, the in-house schools will be very over priced.
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To push the envelope, how about starting a third career at 50 in the regionals? No expectation of making it to the “heavies”, no family to worry about, just looking forward to the challenge.
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Originally Posted by T2Pilot
(Post 122594)
To push the envelope, how about starting a third career at 50 in the regionals? No expectation of making it to the “heavies”, no family to worry about, just looking forward to challenge.
-LAFF |
Originally Posted by Duksrule
(Post 122456)
I am in the same boat as you, just a few years ahead. Check out my thread in the training section "Navy guy w ??s"
I am going for it and if that is what you want to do, then I think you should go for it too. I know a lot of people on here will tell you to run away but if this is what you want, then go for it. There will also be a lot of guys on here that help and point you in the right diretion. A big plus is that when you are a FO somewhere making $20K a year you will have your military retirement to offset it. Good luck. ......jeeeyuh! It's a longshot, but being around airplanes is the only job I've ever been good at as an adult, and I'm hooked! Been around airplanes almost as long as I've been in the uniform, which equates to 99 percent of my adult life. Funny, a kid from the mean streets of Chicago's south side who grew up afraid of heights can't keep his head out the clouds. I'm 33 years old and I will plan on staying in the Air Force until I reach 1000 TT in addition to 100 MEI for a total of 1100TT, possibly even pick up a type rating somewhere along the way, I'll have a bachelors degree next year, my A&P the year after that. When I get the hours I want, I'll drop my application to the regionals and drop that retirement paperwork, too. The bachelors degree and A&P will open up other avenues while the airlines make their way to my application (along with countless others, I'm sure) and what will I be doing in the meantime? Check the local FBO nearest me. For me, it is that serious. It is a passion but I still have to keep it real. It is very important to keep things in perspective and not drink too much of the "Kool-aid", as some of you cats say. |
Originally Posted by Duksrule
(Post 122456)
I am in the same boat as you, just a few years ahead. Check out my thread in the training section "Navy guy w ??s"
I am going for it and if that is what you want to do, then I think you should go for it too. I know a lot of people on here will tell you to run away but if this is what you want, then go for it. There will also be a lot of guys on here that help and point you in the right diretion. A big plus is that when you are a FO somewhere making $20K a year you will have your military retirement to offset it. Good luck. ......jeeeyuh! It's a longshot, but being around airplanes is the only job I've ever been good at as an adult, and I'm hooked! Been around airplanes almost as long as I've been in the uniform, which equates to 99 percent of my adult life. Funny, a kid from the mean streets of Chicago's south side who grew up afraid of heights can't keep his head out the clouds. I'm 33 years old and I will plan on staying in the Air Force until I reach 1000 TT in addition to 100 MEI for a total of 1100TT, possibly even pick up a type rating somewhere along the way, I'll have a bachelors degree next year, my A&P the year after that. When I get the hours I want, I'll drop my application to the regionals and drop that retirement paperwork, too. The bachelors degree and A&P will open up other avenues while the airlines make their way to my application (along with countless others, I'm sure) and what will I be doing in the meantime? Check the local FBO nearest me...I'll be flying around the flagpole or something along those lines. For me, it is that serious. It is a passion - an addiction, at times; I can't stay away from airliners.net - but I still have to keep it real. To me it's very important to keep things in perspective and not drink too much of the "Kool-aid", as some of you cats say. keeping it real and keeping it right. Peace. |
Long live the Four Fans of Freedom. Peace.
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..and sorry about the duplicate posting, folks.
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Future
Aviation is going the way of the working enthusiast. People can't afford to simply be a private pilot anymore and fly on the week ends. It seems that if pilots are in for a "penny they are in for a pound". As such the airlines increasingly seem to like retired military and other financially independent types since they come with an outside income. In addition, most have older children and do not have as many home front issues.
I think there is great opportunity for older pilots in the future however I don't think they will relax the college requirement and I don't think you will earn very much or will make it to a major. At best airline wages will make a nice supplement to a military retirement but you couldn't live on it alone. Don't forget the college. Get a four year degree or your chances will be discounted greatly. It is almost as important as getting the ratings. PS. I am a 40 year old ex-airline pilot and I wouldn't dream of trying to support my family on regional pilot wages. Currently I am building houses instead. SkyHigh |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 122245)
True that most have to farm out the checkrides to a DPE...however the checkride is STILL a 141 End-of-Course Stage Check, and as such cannot be "failed", only complete or incomplete. The DPE is SUPPOSED to complete 141 paperwork and do the 8710 differently than a 61 ride. Also no pink slip should be issued in the event of an incomplete.
All this info, and instructions on how to fill out the 8710, are in the examiner's handbook. Unfortunately many examiners don't know or bother with the proper procedures for a 141 "failure", and just process it like 61. This is not really fair to the student who jumped through the 141 hoops, and the school should not allow this to happen. |
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