Route to regionals without CFI'ing.
 

Hi! this is my first post here so i apologize if im in the wrong spot.

Im looking for suggestions to other routes than the CFI way. Im currently working on my initial CFI but it looks like i wont have enough money to complete the MEI and CFII. I have been told that i need the last two to get hired by anybody as an instructor. So here is my question; Are there other jobs available to a fresh 300h pilot?

Thank you

You could send an app to Mesa, I've heard some good things about them.

Is that a joke:confused:

Everyone is hiring CFIs (no II/MEI) these days. You may have to go somewhere other than your ideal location, but you can get a job. A lot of places will also give you reduced rates for add-on ratings, or even give it to you for free after you work for a period of time. Look into it. Check the job boards (climbto350.com, findapilot.com, jsfirm.com, etc.) to find these jobs. I just stopped into my local FBO yesterday to get info on rental rates, and when I mentioned I was a CFI, they practically offered me a job on the spot. I'd do it if I could.

As to what you can do without a CFI, banner towing and traffic watch seem to be the most popular, although those jobs tend to want at least 500 hours for insurance purposes.

My advice - finish your CFI, find an instructing job like mentioned above, and continue building time. Good luck.

The CFII will definately help, the MEI is just nice to have. If you do it right, I know people that got their CFII for about $600 (checkride included). All you need is three hours in an 152, an instructor willing to sign you off, and a DPE who still thinks NDB's are the primary navigational instrument in the United States (those guys are always the easiest to pass with). I'm willing to bet though that most Part 61 Mom and Pop FBO's would hire someone without a CFII and let you work your way up from there. At one point, my old flight school would pick up half the cost of CFII/MEI training to anyone with a CFI already employed there. Ya just gotta look...

Of course, if you just don't want to instruct, get 50 hours of multi and earn the respect of your peers by flying the ol' -900 for Mesa :rolleyes:

The CFI alone should allow you to get started. There are very few means of getting to a regional that are cheaper than the CFI route. All the pay-for-jet-training scams cost $30-90K...for that kind of money you're better off buying a block of twin time so you get some real PIC.

The only other way would be to find a low-time general aviation job such as pipe-line patrol, animal tracking, traffic watch, sky diver driver, etc. These are not super-easy to find but you might get lucky. All of these jobs would be single-engine, so you would still need to figure out your ME time later.

The vast majority of GA twin engine (and a lot of single-engine) jobs are on 135 certificates which means you need 1200 hours...it's actually harder to get those jobs than a regional job.

Thank you, ill see if i can get an instructor job with the CFI alone...

Network! I got on flying a 55 Baron at 250TT....its all about who you know.

www.avjobs.com if you wanna blow some cash on the sign-up fee.

Train at ATP , CFI there to build your time to 135 mins then start looking for the next step.

I've realized regionals / 121 flying is not the only viable game out there. In fact, I'm not interested in 121 flying at all. 135 is going to be where I hang my ATP hat.

-LAFF

Yeah, you might be able to find some wealthy dude with his own airplane who needs a supervisory pilot for insurance purposes. I had a buddy who did this. You just need to be careful abouy who logs what.

I'll repeat, i am short on cash to put it mildly. I can barely scrape through the CFI - initial. So i can't spend money on training. Ill try and see if i can get a G/A job. I guess ill put up a poster down at the local FBO about flying in the right seat just to get the multi hours i need.

Banner tow... tail-wheel endorsement is cheap. OR traffic watch, and pipeline. Just to name a few.

I agree with whats been said above, CFI alone can get you hired.. There is plenty of mom & pop shop FBOs who don't mind hiring a fresh cfi ... IF you have the right attitude. Some mom & pop shops also have connections with a guy that might have that baron or seneca.

Best of luck.:rolleyes:

Be careful doing that, you need to review the rules regarding "holding out" as a commercial pilot. These are somewhat vague and often subject to interpretation so I would ask the local FSDO, since they are the ones who will violate you for doing this.

I think i will be ok as long as im not renting plane FOR somebody...

Another route that will make you look like Jesus himself on a resume is to talk to AngelFlight and see if any of their pilots would like to have a CFI ride along with them to make them feel better. It's charity, and therefore much easier to get around some of those pesky regulations that keep getting in the way. You don't get paid, but you get flight time.

I can tell you that the MEI is not necessary as long as you get the required multi. When I apply to the regionals, I won't have anymore than a CFI and a CFII. I was fortunate to start working for my FBO doing line so when the time came for the CFI I was instantly offered the job. We also do 135 charters so my multi is coming from that. I realize that most won't always get these kinds of opportunities but I would go ahead and get the CFI and see whats out there for 135 charter companies to get the multi. The CFI is a great way to get the required total time.

Try getting into aircraft sales. The money can be good, you will meet lots of people and depending on how busy the place is, you will probably do a fair amount of flying. Had a buddy that flew all kinds of airplanes, twins and singles, doing delivery and warranty ferry flights.

Or splitting the cost.

Hmm... I do live 30 miles from the piper factory. Maybe i could get a job there.

That is what makes sense to me too, but there is some disagreement on it (at the national level) and people have been violated. Holding Out is a complex legal concept that was glossed over in comm training. Go ask the FSDO to be safe.

Air National Guard is always one way. It'll take awhile, but you can get there without a CFI/II/MEI. Thats where I am at in my life. Didnt really wanna go the regional route, but when you need insurance you need insurance.
Also I would agree about the meet someone who has a plane and fly with them. If you can really get buddies with an old dude who doesnt give a sh!t about hours he'll let you log it.
If you can become friends with a dealer and he wants you to do deliveries that would be great too.

These are all things that I have done to get hours. Here I am prepping for interviews with regionals and flyin heavy metal!!! All without a CFI.

Definitely don't need MEI. It's a money pit...and many flight schools won't even let you teach in the multi until you get 1000TT or 500 dual given or something like that. But you'll need to find SOME way to get some cheap multi time...part 135 etc.

God your obsessed with that shythole.

Seriously I dont see what is so great about ATP.

Hammer on 135 operators doors.

I found one where they let me sit right seat in a 402 until I hit 500 hrs. At 500 hrs they checked me out PIC VFR in a bonanza, 700 hours VFR PIC 402. At 1200 hours I went full time IFR Captain.

I got from 250tt to 1200 in a year and a half. Everyone here will prob be offended but the quality of time was way better than CFI time. Single pilot IFR at night, no autopilot, all types of weather makes you one hell of a proficient pilot.

...and how much insurance they can afford.

X Rated

So why not be a CFI. Since august of 2005 when I graduated with 300hrs To now, that's including 2 months of not working, I'm sitting at 1700ish hours. I have about 40 in a twin turbo prop because of the local owner. I've also opened up doors to other 135 jobs since I've been one. I don't have my MEI and will probably only get it just to keep my certificate up to date. However it will be odd doing a checkride in a merlin :/ It's the only twin I have available to fly.

Don't 135 ops allow you fly so long as you meet the 135 mins if the checkpilot for the company is qualified enough? I thought if they checked you out you could dodge some of the insurance requirements.

Aerial survey is the way to go
 

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...irlines+prefer

(Read Billy32's posts for a good description.)

Great hour-building (better than most CFI positions in terms of the hours you get... I got 40 in my best week so far!) and relatively decent pay (for example, a company in Rochester pays $1800 biweekly, with a $3500 bonus at the end of the season. But you have to pay for your own hotel as opposed to most companies that pay you lesser salary but pay for your hotel/rental car.) Good learning experience too, as far as the flying goes... I got my first single pilot IMC hours through this job. Flew grids in NYC Class B for a couple weeks, etc. (Got chewed out by NY controller only once during my entire time there! :P) Most of my relocating cross-countries are done IFR - keeps me real current on instrument stuff. You move around a lot, but that could be a plus if you like travelling, or minus if you have family. It's seriously the best kept secret in time building. There are lots of companies out there... a few even start you out in twins. And most of these companies do hire fresh grads with 250 hrs (although they might state that they want 500... it never hurts to call and ask.)

do you have names on some of these companies?

Thanks!

There are seriously a ton... a few of the ones based in the Northeast that fly mostly C172s are Northern States Aviation, Landcare Aviation, Rochester Aerial Survey (that's the one that pays $1800 biweekly salary.. but I know all of the above companies pay salary, so you get paid even if you're weathered!) There are also companies all over the country that fly decent sized twins or even turboprops for aerial survey... the pay for some of these companies is GOOD. I wish I could tell you the names, but all I know is that they do exist because I've met current corporate pilots who've flown for them in the past and I also I see these twins and turboprops sitting on the ramps of some of the airports that I fly into (I know they are survey planes cuz they've got the cameras and computer equipment in the back like my plane does.) I highly encourage you to seek these out, as I heard (from the former employees) that some of the twin places hire fresh 300 hr pilots too. But the C172 outfits aren't a bad deal either, some people are able to get their 135 mins from one season (fall - spring) and then move on to charter or cargo. Another thing is, you do meet a ton of other pilots during all this travelling you're doing... hanging out at FBOs all the time. You might be able to make some connections along the way and be able to score a charter or corporate gig before the season is even over.

Be a CFI. Don't sell yourself short and not do it. I have 1700hrs from doing it and I'm still learning new things everyday. It makes you a better pilot by teaching others. I flew over 200hrs in one month doing a part 91 gig and all I did was become complacent. Teaching people, constantly being hit up with questions being forced to dig in the books, the gratification of having a student pass a checkride, as well as being on the other side of the desk all make it worth while and I've made good money doing it. Call be a liar but I get the feeling hiring airlines like seeing that too if you didn't go the military route. That's what my UPS bud told me anywho.

However up Northeast there is:
aerial mapping
traffic watch
banner towing.

South on the coast there is:
Radio Relay
Fish spotting(Guys get about 1k hrs a summer)
Traffic
Banner

Around alaska:
Sight seeing
Radio Relay
Mail carrying
fire patrol

Texas:
Fire Patrol
Traffic
Radio Relay
Flying powerlines and/or pipelines
Oil spotting(looking for slicks coming from gulf rigs in a small twin)
Flying hunters(seasonal but usually in a C421 or C401 and you get about 75hrs a month multi doing it)

Of course this isn't all of them but it's all I know of.

I'm not arguing which route is better, just letting him know what other options are available. Believe it or not I actually WANTED to instruct too (have my CFI/II/MEI) but got this job first. I do agree that you learn so much from teaching others... but bottom line is CFI-ing and surveying have different challenges and you learn different things from the two jobs.

No arguement there. Everything offers it's own advantages. I flew radio relay right when I graduated and flew 202.3hrs one month and the second I hit 150hrs and quit from going crazy with all the flying. However I was flying all over the coast of La, Al, Tx, and Ms. I learned more about weather there than I ever did in my 3 semesters of class. The patterns of it. Things I would have never learned by instructing. However because of instructing I've learned the regs, operating procedures, and feel I'm a safer and much more confident pilot.

I've been instructing for a year, and rather than moving to a regional decided to continue instructing at a university and get a second degree. With a CFII you'll be very hirable but with just the initial you shouldn't have a problem (especially in FL). Most flight schools will offer lower rental rates or free dual to get the additional ratings.

Fly jumpers...
 

I never instructed...

Flew jumpers in everything from a C-182 to a King Air B90...

Part 135 cargo after reaching 1200 TT, etc.

UPS doesn't seem to care!!

Good luck...

Go wherever you can get the most (required minimum) PIC time in the shortest amount of time and in the fastest and most complicated aircraft you can get your hands on.

While CFI'ing may be a great personal experience, the airline is going to teach you everything they want you to know, even how to think, and a common failure mode is folks not making the adjustment to think their way.

The hardest to overcome difference between teaching in 172 and flying for a 121 operator is going from a 120kt world in a plane that won't bite you hard to a 350+ kt world in a plane with sharp teeth for the disrespectful.

Hence the emphasis on Turbine time.

Good Luck,
Spongebob