Are airline pilot blackball lists real?
 

Reading these boards I see quite a few claims that airlines are known to maintain and share secret lists of information about pilots among themselves, dirty facts that are excluded from PRIA and the usual background checks associated with pilot applications. This type of list is commonly called a "blackball list" and it would be filled with alleged facts that are illegal to possess by federal law, but still desired for making hiring decisions. As illegal information such lists would have to be kept secret and their deniability would be maintained. But do they exist? How do we know they exist?

Who says they have any facts? If blackball lists existed, they would be just a list of names.

I would hazard a guess that there is entirely too much liability associated with creating, maintaining and using a list like that in the hiring process for any airline to participate. The risk most likely greatly outweighs any potential reward. How do I know? I don't know. Companies and organizations are so liability averse these days its not a tough conclusion to reach.

I would imagine one chief pilot might tell another chief pilot, "Don't hire this guy because of X Y and Z," but I doubt there's an actual list.

What I'm curious about are these fabled scab lists. Are they really around and how does one acquire them? Are they for individual airlines or is there a master list for the industry?

Yeah the scab lists exist. Simple google search will pull them up instantly.

Most of whom are retired or dead....Striking is virtually impossible these days so the term scab has taken on a new definition in the recent past.

When I was at RAH several years ago it was pretty much common knowledge that certain check airmen were blackballed at Southwest because a guy they deliberately screwed on a check ride(I believe it involved him losing his 4 stripes) ended up being involved in hiring at SWA. Of course that type of activity is par for the course at RAH.

Are you serious?

As a Moderator, I would think you'd be keenly aware that Airline Pilot Central Forums are viewable by everyone .



Have you stopped beating your wife?







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I know factually of one instance where a system CP talked to his counterpart at another airline about a pilot. In this case it was on behalf of said pilot, which airline A had to fire (due to unusual circumstances involving FAA HQ and the USSS). Airline A CP told airline B CP that he was a good guy who had a bit of bad luck, and airline B hired him.

As far as formal blacklists, I seriously doubt it.

Good advice, Tony.

This topic is valid for public discussion and is one that affects a lot of people. Care should be exercised as to the public nature of the Boards. Real names must be avoided, and if your user identity is known to your colleagues (I would advise assuming it is), then be careful about saying anything that can adversely affect you.

Go talk to all the Eastern scabs who couldn't find a job anywhere but Valujet. Scab lists do exist but as was said earlier, since no one has been on strike since Comair, and no major strikes have occured since Northwest the lists are pretty much useless. There were two scabbers at Comair that retired, and no one scabbed at NWA. Most recent ones were EAL and Continetal guys that are mostly retired now.

You might be surprised by how many are not retired.






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A Spirit guy might disagree with you.

Are airline pilot blackball lists real?
 

Remember aviation is a relatively small community. There is no need to keep an actual list. Example being at my carrier they post a list of potential hires for a few weeks before they offer class dates. Current pilots are encouraged to give feedback(positive or negative) on the potential new hires.

Word spreads fast. If an ahole from your last company gets an interview odds are you will find out via word of mouth and have the opportunity to comment.

You can fool people for 20 mins during an interview but having opinions from people who have flown with them on a 4 day trip is important.

Spirit had 2 scabs (Falcon Air pilots, one of whom was an EAL 89 scab)

Amerijet also had nearly a dozen scab their operation. A combination of their own pilots (some EAL 89 scabs), off the street pilots, and foreign ACMI pilots.

I'm sure it is more word of mouth or common knowledge, example, Global Girl and the scandal she has gotten herself into with her past being in the news a few monthes ago while she still sets out to promote herself *cough I mean aviation. People like her, all the employers have to do is look at a news site to get a glimpse of her background and decide, nah bruh, we can find someone else to better support their values.

None of this stuff exists anymore. The unions are in bed with the company and whatever the company says the unions will do nowadays. Pilot unions are not involved in hiring anymore, and while some check airmen and CP's etc sit on the hiring/interview board, they have a lot more on their mind than researching the background and career choices of whomever is in front of them. Somebody stated a few posts prior about word of mouth...that is basically how people are blacklisted these days, but even then, that word of mouth has to wind up in the ears of somebody who directly controls pilot hiring.


Just don't be an @$$hole, come to work looking to better yourself and the lives of those you cross paths and you'll never have any problems. People who do choose to be jerks will eventually be hit with that freight train of bad karma at some point in their career/life.

Our DO keeps photocopies of crew badges on his desk of the pilots he wants to fire...

I tell you what, I know of some real specimens that have recently left RAH for various mainline carriers. If the blacklist does exist, it missed a few. :D

New defintion by who, you? A scab is still a scab, a pilot flying struck work.

Agreed. And since the railway labor act has been around for quite some time and covered airline pattern bargaining for quite some time, it is no more difficult today than it was in any other era to strike. We just have an instant gratification society that isn't willing to take the time to get there.

Don't devalue the term. A scab is a pilot who flies struck work.

What about forbidden personal info other than union activity? Could a blackball list exist for other kinds of info such as, this person is a pain in the butt, this person is temperamental, politically not what we wanted, not a "company" person or team player, criticizes authority too much, makes trouble for us somehow, has odd personal habits, has a family relationship you would want to know about, lied to us about (x), has a type (x) personality we do not like, quit the last job for (x) actual reason, was fired for (x) actual reason?

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Fidy is starting a list

I don't think there is a global list, there are "don't not fly" lists within pilot groups.

Lists of pilots who have flown struck work and/or broke a picket line exist. It's not that long these days as the RLA has stopped most of the ability to get on the list once you take out retirements, death, or already employed at a major. I think many would be surprised that they exist, but they do and are known to most who do hiring. Although, I don't know anyone with the list that will say it exists.