DTW Options
 

Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm nearing the point of transitioning towards a regional. I am currently a flight instructor and live in the Detroit region.

I know that QOL is one of the top points for deciding which regional to go to. Being in Detroit, surprisingly the options are limited for non-commuting though.

From what I understand, with Compass closing their DTW domicile the choice is now Endeavor or ExpressJet...

My hope is to end up at a place I will be happy as I put in my time towards a regional, but I don't want to be stuck at a regional for 10+ years...

The pros and cons of going to Endeavor have been argued ad-nauseam with the retention bonus vs. upgrade time. My gut tells me the upgrade time is too much for me to accomplish my career goals. But, being Detroit based means I can save several thousand a year for the first few years by living at home.

Everything I have heard about ExpressJet tells me to avoid it like the plague.

So, is it really worth going to one of these carriers to avoid commuting, or would commuting be a better option?

Currently I have interviews scheduled with Piedmont, CommutAir, and Envoy. Compass, Endeavor, Skywest and PSA have shown interest in having me interview as well.

Sorry for what seems like another "Where should I go?" post. I just figured somebody might have some insight into my situation about not commuting with a crappy regional vs commuting with a better one.

Que the WHY ARE YOU INTERVIEWING AT PSA????!!? posts

Well living in base is a nice quality of life enhancement, but here's the thing- Regional airlines open and close bases so frequently you just can't depend on that base being there. My advice for your career would be to prepare (you and your family) to be mobile.

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending how you look at it), I am currently living the single life, so no family to worry about. Big reason for wanting to be based in DTW would be cost savings the first few years of low pay by living at the parents place.

You need to weigh that against the cost in upgrade time. In your estimation, you have to decide if a quicker upgrade time will be more beneficial to your career. ie- do you think getting to regional captain sooner will have a bigger impact on your hire date (and thus your seniority) over at a mainline carrier.

If you want to live in DTW I would say Endeavor is your ticket. There are XJT guys leaving and coming to Endeavor if that means anything. Living at home and not commuting while making $46k plus your first year beats commuting to a crashed and much lower pay.

My opinion is biased, however I would say PSA. You can bid Dayton which is relatively Jr and could drive to Detroit in about 2.5 hours. An apartment in Dayton would be cheap! Like low $400's for 2 bedroom.

You can get all the info you need about upgrade/contract/QOL by reading through the threads here.

Live the single life, in a cool domicile, crashpad, and address from your parents house. Travel around the system via basing, decide if it's the life for you. If so then decide where you want to live. Being JR means you will be worked like a hooker on Sat night, so you ain't gonna be eatin' Moms and Dads frees foods much anyway. Go for the fastest upgrade, and power through the pain of the regional experience as fast as possible. Trust me when you are living in HNL or MIA the parents will be coming to visit you, so you can live in paradise and eat Mom's home cooking on your back porch without risking frostbite.

P.S. Know why people pay $2000.00 for a studio in SFO? Because it ain't Dayton, or DTW or any other place where you can rent a $400.00 a month 2 bedroom bullet sponge. If you are gonna live in a place wher you might get shot, try Compton, at least you will be warm when you get hit.

Rumors at RAH for a DTW base...

Now that's a tempter!

Oh, there's been lots of rumors that haven't panned out.

on the CS300 by the end of the year.

With QOL increases that make us a career airline, because we, "are their number 1 customer..."

With cancellation pay.....

Same at SkyWest..... They just opened a line MX base there..

I am DTW based and live in DTW. I'd say go Endeavor. PM me if you have specific questions and I'll be happy to chat.

Regarding upgrade time: one thing to keep in mind, more and more majors and basically all of the LCC's except Southwest are hiring with no turbine PIC time so you may not have to wait for an upgrade at a regional to get an interview at a (lets just call them) real airline. Spirit has a DTW base that goes quite junior and a quick upgrade. You could put in a couple years at Endeavor, go to Spirit and be a Bus captain by 2020 with a couple lucky breaks. Majors love to scalp pilots from their LCC competition so you could go from there to DAL, United, whatever.

If you are young and single, I would strongly consider an expat gig. Emirates, Quatar, Korean, there's others but it's not my cup of tea so I'm not that up on it. Suffice it to say you'll make enough in 10 years to retire.

Anyway, let me know if you have any questions about Endeavor.

Good luck!

Add the unsolicited sermons from BB and your choice becomes clear!

PSA is feasible but depends on where in the DTW area you live.

I lived north of DTW in the late 80s/early 90s. If you're south of DTW, the DAY crew base is drivable in 2-3 hours. The reserve call out time is two hours.

I was DTW-based my last two years with Comair. The drive time from my driveway to the DTW employee parking lot was 3:45 with no stops. I live south of DAY, half way toward CVG.

There are rumors of a ORD base at PSA. TSA also has a ORD base and is hiring. Commuting to a base you can also drive to is a good option if you feel you must commute.

ill assume that since hes posting in the regional threads, he has 1500TT or less

Easy commute from DTW to ORD, which opens up a lot more options for you.

I'm based and live in DTW as well. As BATOL said I think Endeavor is your best bet man.

With the current hiring and worst case scenario attrition from the top (a contractual number that must go to Delta) you're looking at 3 years max for upgrade at Endeavor but you'll make $60k extra during those 3 years. Say you upgrade in 24 months at some other regional. Sure you make more as a captain but do the math... what's the total earnings over say 5 years?

There's also the living in base factor. Reserve is an absolute cake walk if you live in base. I've been on reserve several days this month and haven't touched an aircraft since April 1. Can you imagine sitting in a crashpad at ORD during all that time? I've been at home in my sweats working on stuff around my house and hanging out with my dog and fiance. Good luck doing that in a crashpad.

You could just move to a base at the quick upgrade airline I suppose. Good luck paying for that though on their pay.

There's many paths to take but the music almost always stops for awhile. Where do you wanna be when the music stops?

PM me if you have any questions about Endeavor. Go Broncos!

Thanks for the opinions guys,


Expat is probably not quite in reach for me. I'm qualifying for the rATP as we speak.

Do you really think an Endeavor upgrade would be 3 years? Isn't Endeavor shrinking, with captains flying FO spots?

It appears that the shrinking may have stopped. The last notice was vacancy (no displacements or downgrades, just upgrades) As long as the new hires keep coming (applications have increased significantly since the "bonus" was announced) the upgrades will continue. Though that is the case everywhere now. Upgrades are largely limited by new hires to replace the upgrading FO.

I've just looked through the attrition data here at XJT since January. We've had ZERO pilots leave us to go to Endeavor, not sure what your source is. As for the OP, XJT is not a bad place to be. Way better contract in comparison to Endeavor and DTW is one of our junior bases so your chances of getting it right out of training is high. Look beyond that retention bonus, remember it won't last forever. Good luck!

Junior maybe to get in, but there's guys 2+ years on reserve at DTW XJT.

Rumors of that at Skywest too and we opened a Mx base as well there now....

Everybody is basing DTW cos it's cheap and first year FOs love that !

This is true, once our IAD base was announced to close a lot of senior FO's fled to DTW making it more senior. However, I have met a lot of 9E FO's still on reserve after 7 + years, in DTW.

That's about to change after our last vacancy. Reserve will be only guys with less than about 4 years, still not great but definitely a move in the great direction. I'd imagine it will get down to guys with less than 2 years with the next vacancy. This is on the -900 at least.

I hope things get better for you guys at 9E, heck for all of us. During my DTW stint I joined a Crashpad predominately filled with 9E pilots and met a lot of good guys, wish ya'll the best.