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-   -   RAA is trying very hard to rescind ATP rule (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/87864-raa-trying-very-hard-rescind-atp-rule.html)

Planedrive 05-21-2015 02:13 PM

I think is is very important people stop calling this "The 1500 Hour Rule."

Military pilots only need 750 hours.

Four year university grads only need 1000 hours.

After graduating college with around 250 hours the students will only need to gain more experience for about 1 year before they can be hired into an airline.

Who would want to become a pilot when you can make more flipping burgers and be home every night to see your family. Pay/poor benefits is the only cause of this "pilot shortage"

FraxAvi8tor 05-21-2015 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by Planedrive (Post 1885743)
Who would want to become a pilot when you can make more flipping burgers and be home every night to see your family. Pay/poor benefits is the only cause of this "pilot shortage"

I agree with what you're saying but have an issue with your last point. Obviously someone is taking the pilot jobs that pay poorly, which perpetuates the low pay problem.

No business is ever going to compensate or throw money at employees unless you are a) highly qualified and unique in your position, or b) there are no applicants accepting employment under the offer. Pilots are extremely skilled with a huge responsibility in their positions, and airlines know this. However, none of that matters in terms of pay and compensation until pilots demand it through action.

andreas500 05-21-2015 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by Rahlifer (Post 1884954)
I've never understood the fascination pilots have with comparing themselves to doctors. Doctors have over a decade of higher education along with an intimate working knowledge of biology, chemistry and physics. A degree in mediveal poetry still allows one to cheek the box and be a pilot. Pilots are trained through practice and repetition to complete tasks. Anyone can be a pilot, but most people could never be a doctor. It's a ridiculous comparison. Not even apples and oranges.

Even if we did somehow cause hell to freeze over and double pay at the regionals, we'd still be regional pilots fighting over scraps from the mainline partners. We're completely replaceable by whatever company can do it for a dollar cheaper. Making it to mainline is not just an ego/paycheck thing. It's also about a slight modicum of stability as well as being treated like a human. No regional will ever be a safe place to call a "career".

Stop picking on mid-evil (spelling change intended) poetry...

block30 05-21-2015 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by Planedrive (Post 1885743)
I think is is very important people stop calling this "The 1500 Hour Rule."

Military pilots only need 750 hours.

Four year university grads only need 1000 hours.

After graduating college with around 250 hours the students will only need to gain more experience for about 1 year before they can be hired into an airline.

Who would want to become a pilot when you can make more flipping burgers and be home every night to see your family. Pay/poor benefits is the only cause of this "pilot shortage"

This! :cool:

Two year program grads need 1250 hours. My personal feeling is that hour reductions should be based on the merit of the course, not whether or not a degree is granted, much less whether the degree is a two or four year...

comrcap 05-21-2015 05:14 PM

No credit for ground school,military,141.. Period. Experience counts. Period. Put your time in flying freight in a caravan, twin Cessna , whatever. Scare yourself before you EVER think of flying passengers.

Cloudnine 05-21-2015 10:08 PM


Originally Posted by SMACFUM (Post 1885467)
Make sure to read the last paragraph of this article. Thoughts??? First steps already underway at the FAA to further erode the ATP requirement for 121 SICs???

Pilot Shortage Turns to Crisis among Small Cargo Carriers | Air Transport: Aviation International News

"John Duncan, director of the FAA’s Flight Standards Service, attended the entire RACCA conference and tried to assuage some of the members’ concerns. He assured members that the FAA is working on rulemaking that would allow time-building pilots to log legitimate flight time in the right seat of a twin-engine airplane that normally needs a single pilot. “The process takes some time,” he said. “We are pushing that to the top.” As for the Ameriflight exemption to lower the number of hours required to fly as pilot-in-command under IFR, he added, “we’re working that as well. We understand the urgency.” Flooded with unmanned aircraft exemption requests, the FAA has become overwhelmed, he indicated. “Our resources are strained,” said Duncan."

I think right seat in a metroliner or beech 99 in night imc is experience worthy of logging. At least as worthwhile as a safety pilot in a 172 or a flight instructor in the pattern(both of whom can log pic) Creating a route for inexperienced pilots to gain exposure to real commercial flying, and to log that as flight experience is not the same as eroding the qualifications to hold an atp. Gimme a break, I think most people forget how demanding it is to get to 135 mins, much less atp mins.
As GA shrinks , so do low time oppertunities.
People want a career path. I know many guys who are 5 or 7 years in the game and still below 1000. It's not financially viable to spin your wheels for 5-10 years with debt and interest.
The FAA is very very restrictive on logging as it is.


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