Washout rate in regionals
 

What is an approx. washout rate in the different regionals? (AE,ASA,Comair,X-jet,Skywest.....)

SKW has a low wash out rate. I only know of a few (less than 10 out of nearly 600 hired) since June and that's between both a/c. SKW believes that they will train you to proficiency and you will weed yourself out on IOE or Upgrade. SKW interview is one of the hardest in the regional industry consisting of; Sim, Technical, HR, CRM Scenario, ATP & Mechanical Aptitude test. I know it doesn't weed through everyone but it does a good job bringing in bright pilots with good attitudes.

SKW really believes in the right attitude, they will teach you the rest.

Typically 5-10% , depending on company and aircraft. In most cases attitude or effort is the problem, for a few it is just lack of ability.

Dumb question but does anyone pop you in a sim as part of the hiring process?

almost all regionals put you in the sim, ASA even puts you in their full motion crj simulator and have you fly it around. dont worry about it though, one of their guys sits left seat and tells you how to set the plane up, all you have to do is shoot an approach, do a hold, and a couple other things. basic ifr stuff.

Comair now has a new program called "Launch". They started this when they lowered the minimums. New hires go through this during the first week. It consists of sim sessions and ends with an evaluation. You need to pass the eval. to continue on with training but it is no big deal. Out of 30+ people who have been through, I believe only 1 person has been sent home. They are just looking to see you are trainable and make improvements during each sim session. Mostly learning all the automation, which apparently has been a trouble area for new hires during the sim training.

I question the training philosophy that "weeds people out" with paying passengers on board. If you can't do it in the sim during initial up to standards, why would you be able to do it with added real world pressures?

I imagine the weeding out during IOE has more to do with attitude and dealing with passengers etc... but thats just my guess.

That's not really what they, or any other airline does. The sim teaches certain skills, which you are then evaluated on. It is actually pretty cut-and-dried as to what you have to do...

Line flying is far different from the sim...more ambiguity and changing environments. People who have graduated from the narrow world of the sim need to get some experinence, and be evaluated, in the real world. Some people just can't hack it. Well, most of the ones that fail probably could if given enough time, but the check-airmen are needed for other trainees, so you only get so many hours. If you don't get it by then, you're done.

Sim and IOE are two different processes, and both are necessary.

Line flying IS very different than the sim, I will agree with you on that one. I felt like I was doing something wrong at first on the line because there is so little to do when nothing is failed or on fire. The real deal was a joke after my time in the sim. I'm not saying that there were not challenges or adjustments while doing IOE, I just think the sim is where people at most airlines get bagged, not IOE.

XJET does Not have a sim ride in the interview. Only one day interview and they tell you right then and there if you are hired.

In addition Comair, TSA and Blowjet doesnt have a simride on interview.

"Here at GoJet Airlines, a proud member of Trans States Holdings, we take great efforts to ensure that we hire only the best. When the pilots arrive, we remind them to stand up straight and look us in the eyes. Then we show them a pretty picture of a CRJ. Then we ask them, point blank "Why do you want to work here?" As long as, "I don't" does not come out of there mouths, we hire them. For some reason we have a lot of pilots failing their initial drug tests for excessive anti-depressant use. The causes are still undetermined."

Did you make that up yourself that's pretty awesome lol

On a more serious note, from my experience and from what I have heard... there is always one or two in a class who don't make it for whatever reason. The companies expect and plan for this. Some people just can't handle the madness.

No Ride at Mesa, they figure if you have not killed an instructor at San Juan in your last 250 hours then you can certainly fly an 80,000lb RJ.

Or, if you actually have experience they can figure out in the interview if you have clue or not. They don't need to waste money in sim to watch you fly a hold backwards when they can see you do it on paper. Besides if the interview is $50 what do you think the sim ride would cost! :)

You have to pay to interview at Mesa? Wow. That should be the writing on the wall for the newbies.

There is too a sim ride at mesa,, they hand you a jep chart and say" ok pretend your finger is an airplane and give you a clearance of 'middle finger 321 cleard for the ils 23 approach." hahahaha

I was in a class of 8 and we had a lady wash out. She came with about 300 TT and even had bought a CRJ type (Zero to Hero--overnight). All she did during training was talk about how much money her husband made and how she really didn't even need the job (erveryone was real tired of her by the end). Anyway, we thought her attitude was the only thing that would get her fired (AWAC is pretty forgiving), but after almost 80hrs of OE and multiple different instructors they finally gave her the boot.

I would say most people washout for one or more of three reasons

1.Terrible attitude/ don't fit in...
2. Party way too much during training (AWAC had a class that all 19 of 21 people were let go before OE.)
3. Can't fly. (although I believe this is the most rare... really this isn't rocket science.)

Not to mention real world weather.

Groovinaviator is right.

At AWAC if you arrive ready to work hard, try to fit in and have some basic skills you will be just fine.

My entire class made it through (except one idiot who sort of did but then threw a huge temper tantrum during his final sim check.)

But the class of 19 washouts was also exceptional. A bit too much partying and ho-made porn going on in that class. They are prolly at Skywest now!! :D

1. You need a good attitude to be an instructor or a likeable instructor anyways. Another reason why regionals like flight instructors.

2. If you're partying during training, you have some serious mental problems.

3. If you cannot fly an SE ILS AP down to mins, you shouldn't be a flight instructor, period.

All good points Groovinaviator.

One of my best friends was in that notorious class, they actually only had like 5 washout. 3 during ground school, (1 had lied about working at regions, thought it would "look good" on his resume, 2 others for the infamous 3 some pics.) 1 during OE, as they were type guys with 250hrs that couldn't talk on the radio. The other did not make it thought sim training. They actually told him to come back when he got some more time. Of that 21, I think there are only 5-6 left, the others were asked to leave once online, just could not cut it. My class had 1 washout (and YES he is at skywest now) and another guy leave as he was having a hard time in the sim.

Didn't they rent a pontoon boat and try and flip it? We were also told something about hotel room furniture ending up in the pool and even the sheriff being called (on more than one occasion).

What happens at the Appleton LaQuinta (formerly Bugetel) stays at the LaQuinta!

If that were the truth, John, Mike, Scott and Bob would not have found out about it and fired their asses!! :D

Still makes for good stories and those guys are probably better off now by not having to fly on the east coast.

Yeah they had gotten the boot from the bugetel b/c of the Oshkosh rally, and got put in some small town hotel, rented a pontoon, and tried to sink it. The only reason the cops stopped them was b/c of the drinking on board. The furniture did get thrown into the pool, but it was all plastic stuff and no damage was done. I have not heard about the sheriff being called, but MAN does my buddy have some good stories about ATW and that class!

I suppose you could get weeded out for "soft factors" like attitude or oversleeping every morning, but FO's on IOE usually have zero pax interaction.

Usually people (new to 121) fail IOE for visual approaches or descent planning. A check airman buddy of my mine at mesa told me about a young lady who had to be prompted to descend every time (after being given PD)...he told her on the last day that she was going to have to plan and execute the descents and that he was going to say nothing. Well, they arrive over the destination airport (BFL ?) at F290 :eek:

On the visuals, all the automation tends to get people...it works great when vectored 10 miles outside the marker on a real approach, but on a short dumped-on-the-marker visual you need to turn the AP off, get slow, get dirty, then descend and turn as needed. People new to jets tend to be afraid to arrest their descent to slow down so they can configure...if you don't get configure first, you simply can't go down and slow down.

Homemade porn? were they women? At SKW you say...do you know how I can get in touch with them? :D

No they were not women unfortunately, it was 2 guys and a REALLY nasty chick they picked up, and they are not at skywest......

WHAT?! You ABSOLUTELY have to do some partying during training, if you don't, you will stress yourself out and and that makes training WAAYYY harder! They key is figuring out when to do the partying, obviously getting smashed the night before a test or a PC is not good, but weekends are another story....

ASA's policy. "Leave no pilot behind" Excellent training here.

I know about all the formulas you can use for decent planning and such, but when you are actually on the line is there a quick way you guys determine what decent rate you need? It just doesn't seem like you'd have the time in that situation to work out a few formulas to get down. When ATC says decend they usually mean, like, now.

Personally, I just calculate how long I have in minutes in my head (approx) until the fix, then figure how fast I need to come down given the altitude I need to lose or how long I can wait before I have to come down. I usually err on the get there a tad early side just incase I eff up a bit. I fly a saab so these calculations are extremely easy. Usually we descend at Vmo which, with TAS and giving a little fudge factor gets me just under 5 miles/min or, take the 10s of miles to your point and double it. 20 miles - 4 minutes.

This only works with airplanes that are doing about 250 KIAS, I'll then make a small adjustment + or - if there is a huge wind or I am going extra slow or something. I think the biggest key is knowing how long you have to make your descent, after that it is pretty easy.

The thumb-rules work, but any modern FMS should have advisory VNAV...all you do is tell the computer where you want to be at what altitude, and it tells you when and how fast to descend.

the perfect descent: idle all the way down to 1000'agl then bump the power up to catch vref and land. can never happen unless youre flying into a podunk airport, but its a fun game to play with the other pilot to see who can nail it.

Our failure rate is very low...don't know a number, but I'd put it at less than 5%.

We only do 50% of the end-of-course checkrides and orals...but the pass/fail rates are about the same for us and the company evaluators.

As has been said many times, attitude is 90% of the battle. But it's not 100%. Every now and then, we get someone who just can't hack it, regardless of attitude.

Most common reasons why?

No jet, FMS, airline background. The 170 tempo is just too much...the old 'drinking out of a firehose' thing. For someone coming from a background like a Caravan, our program is a very big bite to chew.

But...most folks...even the Caravan drivers...do finish the course. And there are no gimme's...either from the companies or from us.

I'm proud of the folks we train. They've earned their right to the job.

depending on the plane. in the crj you set up where atc wants you. for example atc says cross 10 miles north of gilmore at and maintain 10000. so what you do is select gilmore in the fms, create a fix 10 miles north of it on your flight plan, and then give it an alltitude. then move the altitude preselect to 10000ft. If you have vnav on your mfd it will give you the feet per minute and the degree of descent at the same time, you just choose whether you want to do a 3.0 degree descent, or a 4.0, or a 2.0 doesn't matter. you just choose what you like and follow it down. its all real time so like you said when atc gives it to you, you just put it in and go.

Wow, that aint the ASA I used to know.:eek: Good to hear that things change.