How to avoid the next whipsaw attempt
 

Pinnacle buying Colgan. The basic thought here is that Pinnacle is going to use the non union at Colgan to go up against the unionized Pinnicle guys for new aircraft and new flying pitting you against each other in your contract negotiations. Now that Chuck Jr and the old boys are off the scene its time to get representaion for the colgan guys.

This is a classic Johny O move, see Freedom Airlines and Mesa going to China. The deal there is going to be if you don't sign my contract I'll dry lease your airplane to China and furlough you. Take 'em, I for one could use a break!

This is a time for Pinnacle and Colgan pilots to join forces. You guys did not bring this on but you will need to deal with it. Fighting with one another is exactly what the company wants. Time for some Colgan leaders to step up and get with the leaders in Pinnacles pilot group.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, this very subject has 3 threads already...

Whoops, I have been away for a week. Sorry. I couldn't find anything labeled toward it and didn't go down through them all.

Couldn't agree more, Grounded

colgan pilots are already working on it. I love how everyone is more concerned over colgan pilots joining them, than working on their own issues. PCL pilots, colgan pilots, and alpa have already met. THey need to get the word out to ppl or the pilot group will lose faith real quick.

I am not sure that it is everyone concerned about the colgan pilots. Its the fear of an Orenstein style screwing for the pinnacle guys. If they don't come together they will be pitted against one another and we will have a Freedom/GoJet style run around on our hands.

Indeed, if there is going to be any trouble this is where it's going to be...

so let me get this right, pcl pilots want colgan pilots to join their ranks to help and ressolve, strenghten the ranks. But, pcl pilots are more worried about the wipsaw than the fate of colgan pilots. THat is what you just posted. Is that what you are saying mr korean?

No that is not what I posted... and no that is not what I meant...

All I was pointing out is that if the two pilot groups don't unify, then a "whippin" is inevitable. That is what I meant Mr. Dingo...

This is exactly what u posted and replied upon.

the 2 pilot groups dont have to unify to avoid a whippin. they can have 2 seperate contracts that lay shizzle out specifically that protects each of them equally. Pcl pilots have had the opportunity to look out for themselves. It failed, and moreso, alpa failed them. ALPA has not helped them secure a new contract one bit. Period. Grievance, lawsuit, whatever you want to call it. ALPA has so far lost to PCL MGMT. WHich SUCKS. COLGAN pilots are not out to screw them one bit. Most of us would walk before that happened. I want them to get what they deserve before I ever see a new a/c type on colgan property. I'll fly the damn wings off of an old 340 if it means that we did the right thing by the pcl pilot group. WE all would. But understand one thing. PCL pilots, especially the senoir ones, were given the chance in the past to make the scope and definition of their exsistining contract. Colgan pilots have never had that opportunity. We will protect our new found brothers as best we can. This buyout is less that 3 weeks old and we are already organizing. We are open, and we are in talks with your MEC.

You want to win the Colgan pilots to your side? Dont' treat us like f-ing stepbrothers, worried about your f-ing interests and your f-ed up contract above our equity that we are bringing to you. We are 350 deep. We live together in the same outstations, drink together, hang out together, and get shat on together. It's like a small school. WE are tight here. WE want to help, and not contribute to the whipsaw, and we are actively pursuing talks with alpa and pcl mec on OUR own behalf. Your pilots are not winning your battle. I've been called a scab by 3 f-ing pcl pilots from pcl in 3 different airports in the last 2 weeks. YOu aren't winning **** with us. Get your own house in order before you tell me how to manage mine. We are trying to get it in order, but every dickbreath pcl pilot that makes some f-ed up comment is losing YOUR war. They are turning away a VERY,VERY tight group of pilots that are willing to join your ranks. I'm not anti union, anti pcl, and Id like to see us all unite and whoop some ass. Like Prater says, "it's time to take it back."

[/QUOTE]the 2 pilot groups dont have to unify to avoid a whippin. they can have 2 seperate contracts that lay shizzle out specifically that protects each of them equally. Pcl pilots have had the opportunity to look out for themselves. It failed, and moreso, alpa failed them. ALPA has not helped them secure a new contract one bit. Period. Grievance, lawsuit, whatever you want to call it. ALPA has so far lost to PCL MGMT. WHich SUCKS. COLGAN pilots are not out to screw them one bit. Most of us would walk before that happened. I want them to get what they deserve before I ever see a new a/c type on colgan property. I'll fly the damn wings off of an old 340 if it means that we did the right thing by the pcl pilot group. WE all would. But understand one thing. PCL pilots, especially the senoir ones, were given the chance in the past to make the scope and definition of their exsistining contract. Colgan pilots have never had that opportunity. We will protect our new found brothers as best we can. This buyout is less that 3 weeks old and we are already organizing. We are open, and we are in talks with your MEC.

You want to win the Colgan pilots to your side? Dont' treat us like f-ing stepbrothers, worried about your f-ing interests and your f-ed up contract above our equity that we are bringing to you. We are 350 deep. We live together in the same outstations, drink together, hang out together, and get shat on together. It's like a small school. WE are tight here. WE want to help, and not contribute to the whipsaw, and we are actively pursuing talks with alpa and pcl mec on OUR own behalf. Your pilots are not winning your battle. I've been called a scab by 3 f-ing pcl pilots from pcl in 3 different airports in the last 2 weeks. YOu aren't winning **** with us. Get your own house in order before you tell me how to manage mine. We are trying to get it in order, but every dickbreath pcl pilot that makes some f-ed up comment is losing YOUR war. They are turning away a VERY,VERY tight group of pilots that are willing to join your ranks. I'm not anti union, anti pcl, and Id like to see us all unite and whoop some ass. Like Prater says, "it's time to take it back."[/QUOTE]

Ok first thing... RELAX!

I think you misunderstand me Mr. Dingo, as I'm not saying that Colgan is going to do anything bad to PNCL pilots. I am NOT calling ANYONE a scab in this situation, and I think it important to let you know that I don't work at PNCL so you can stop lecturing me about my f-up contract, and company organization etc.

My only point is that "IF" there was going to be trouble, it would be a division of pilot groups! That's it! Actually, I didn't even say it, I just quoted it as pointed out by you... Unity is strength! As an industry, we're all in this together, and I don't want to see anything bad happen to anyone! I'm sure you'd have more support for your point of view if you didn't attack other people's... Either way, good luck to you and all involved...

Hi Dingo,

This is obviously very close to you I am assuming you are a Colgan pilot. I am neither Colgan nor Pinnacle. I am a Mesa pilot and live with the stiNk of a poor contract and maybe the worst pilot company relationship in any industry.

My point, and I believe Koreans was not to choose a side hear. What is going to happen is the pinnacle pilots are going to be told to take this contract or leave it, if they leave it Colgan will get the new flying, new jets and so on... If they take it, they will again lower the bar creating a sucking sound in both of your pockets, and eventually everyone elses. If the Colgan pilots and Pinnacle pilots can stand together and collectivly say no then the company will have to do better.

This is all I was orignally trying to point out. I certainly am not being critical of either group, nor do I believe that was the intention of Korean.

Best of luck to you.

Lets work together guys. We at Pinnacle want the best for our fellow pilots and in my opinion we need to work on Colgan getting some representation. Lets work together to keep both companies strong and safe.

[QUOTE=dingo222;112711]........ I've been called a scab by 3 f-ing pcl pilots from pcl in 3 different airports in the last 2 weeks.....QUOTE]

Whaaatt??? I want names and phone numbers!! at least the dates and flight numbers - I'll get the rest!!! - BCD

[QUOTE=BCDurbin;113129]I for one have no problems with colgan, and if someone did give you a hard time you have my sympathy and apology. I hope in the near future you get your peace, That $280M was from the pinnacle side, but you guys are now in the family however you look at it, I am all for sharing the wealth, as long as everyone gets what is fair- which doesnt ever seem to go along with management, but we can hope right?

I'm in agreement with the last couple posts. We need to all work together on this. If we're all together for the same cause, both sides can definately benefit.

I'd DEFINATELY not call the Colgan guys scabs. Not cool. Lets get you guys in the union and work things out.

That is what should happen. The problem is that there are too many low time pilots at both places that don't care and will do anything for flight time. Example: There are a lot of GIA grads at both places, more at Pinnacle. These people don't see it as a career; they see it as building flight time quickly. If both sides stand up it may affect the amount of flying that they have. Knowing the management at Northwest, they will give the flying to someone else who will do it for less. The only answer that is good for the industry is for everyone to stand up at all costs and stop lowering the bar.

Yeah, the first pecker-head that calls me a scab is gonna be pickin up teeth. We're bustin' our tails to get the union goin'.


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yeah whoever called you scab is obviously misinformed. Someone would only be a scab if we were striking, and then they came in to do the flying we where boycotting. that is what a scab is. as far as i am concerned colgan pilots didn't want this any more than pinnacle pilots did. as usual the pilot groups had no say in the companies decisions. the best thing we can do is make sure we aren't pitted against eachother.