I can understand wanting to same the company money. but what about saving your life. what about breaking 91.527, is it worth saving the company money if you get a violation.

There are certainly times when deicing isn't necessary, even with active snow fall. It depends entirely upon the conditions, the temperature, the type of snowfall and intensity, the temperature of the aircraft, etc... Powdery snow, in very cold temps on a cold wing come to mind... if it will blow off or is not adhering, I have no problem going without anti-ice/de-ice.

How do you determine? Experience and common sense. But everybody here is right- if in doubt, get sprayed. Personally I like my company's current policy. If the weather sucks and deice is required, the plane goes back in the hangar, and we go back to bed... :)

Good to speak up. Cause when the ship goes down, you go with it. Other than that, enjoy the winter wonderland.

Yeah, agree... On side note it was probably one of the best days I've had flying. I was sooo much fun, I did my first ILS right to mins, 2400RVR. CLE was truly a winter wonderland. Going back there tommorrow, they have a lake effect snow watch out, I am excited, can't wait to go again. Hope for some squalls. Also got off my hundred requirement so I got to land in Saranac lake, did the 11 DME arc to the VOR 5, it was blast, landing on the snow covered rwys. Good Times:D

You're saying that you and your capt. wanted to be de-iced and the company refused? And you still took off? :eek:

I believe he was saying they didn't need to be de-iced, but because CAL declared winter ops, they had no choice in the matter.

Fly Safe...
:cool:

Winter Ops means you get deiced- wether you need it or not. Better safe than sorry IMHO.

I'm sure most of us remember the "new FO" phase of being afraid to speak up...and some of us still consider ourselves new FO's. If you're looking for a good way to ask someone about this stuff...just explain "Hey, I'm new...can you explain the reasoning behind this? I would think maybe we should be <insert whatever it is here>" Their explanation could make you more comfortable and you could learn something or it could get them to change their mind. All part of the chameleon personality known as "First Officer"

no the opposite. it was clear skies the snow just moved out. the wings were clean, and no more precip was falling. we asked for negative de-ice and ground replied CAL has declared winter ops, so you haveto get de-iced...no option on the captains part...so we got de-iced and wasted money. i'm not sure if you read the post correctly???

I think many waist $$ when it comes to this. The rules say, "nothing sticking to the aircraft". Its a yes or no answer. There are many out there that will deice just because somebody else did, or because there are a few flurries about. Again yes or no, is the stuff sticking? Will it stick shortly? this requires some thought, IE did the blizzard just start? Granted there are always grey areas that can pop up, if so, spray it. But the majority of the time its really that simple.