Diving for glideslope
 

Ok here's nother one.

I was warned and have experienced that at Skywest's sim ride for the interview they will give you a clearance for approach when it's almost impossible to get on the glideslope. Several people warned me about this one and at my interview several people said they had the same thing at tried to make it down inside the marker. They never made it and using time reached the MAP and went missed. So what is the thing to do? I know what I'd do in real life. I'd ask ATC for a vector for descent or ask for a 360 to lose altitude but how does it look at the interview when people are going missed all the time after trying to make the GS?

Pull the power to idle and push the nose as far down as possible. Once at 150 ft and below the clouds, clear yourself for a visual and land. Style points will be awarded for landing in the first 10 feet of the runway.

can we say lawn dart?

First of all are, are you talking precision or non-precision. It doesn't really matter though. Do not accept the clearance if you have to dive like a madman to get on profile. Ask for vectors or fly a procedure turn. Do something proactive. Don't be forced to do something unsafe.

They are looking for judgement and good airmanship on a sim ride. On my Alaska NDB I ended up pretty far left of course. I turned toward the airport and could see that it was going to be ugly. I went around. The sim instructor said he would have busted me if I had tried to make it. Lesson learned.

SKW wants to see what you'd do in a REAL airplane...fly the sim as though it was for real, ie don't attempt impossible, illegal, or reckless profiles (unless you'd do that for real, in which case I guess I won't see you on line :rolleyes: ).

They will love it if you have the cajones to correct or stand up to ATC.

Canadian short gate!

Yeah, don't fly the sim like you would on the line, do the right thing that the FAA wants you to do!

Ok, I got a question for you guys.
If you are cleared for a full ILS approach and you're on a feeder route or initial approach segment that is taking you to the final approach course (ie. a base leg) and you join the final many miles before the GS intercept altitude on the plate, but happen to be right on the glideslope, what do you do?
Do you dive down to GS intercept altitude, level-off, and wait for the GS to come back down, or do you just join the GS right there?
The second option is certainly more comfortable for the pax, but which one is preferable in a job interview?

For example, lets take the ILS 24R at LAX. If you're coming from the north transitions, you'll be at 4,000' approaching MERCE. But if you start your turn inbound at the LAX 057 lead radial, you will naturally intercept the LOC past MERCE, and you happen to be exactly on glideslope. What would you do? I'm pretty sure both options are legal, since those are minimum altitudes, not mandatory. But what do you think would be better in an interview?

BTW, this approach is very common at the SKW interview.

In this case I would make note of the glideslope crossing altitude at the outer marker and then fly the glideslope all the way in and check that altitude when crossing the marker. like you said easier on the passengers.

sharky thats what i did, while changing tracks on my ipod. i got the job and turned it down just to mess with them for the next time when i really want it. confidence goes a long way

Just curious...the * near the 540....and the arbie fix minimums....

when would you use the arbie fix minimums (S-LOC 24R) as opposed to the normal S-LOC mins of 540.?

No bashing me please...serious question

You have to be careful about doing this at LAX. Some of the ILS glideslopes will take you below minimum segment altitudes.

My suggestion with approaches like these, is fly the glideslope, but do it in Vertical Speed mode (not approach mode). Use the altitude preselect to ensure that you are not deviating from the minimum altitudes. When you cross each step down, change the preselect and keep the descent going. Once you get to the final step down altitude (at which you will intercept the G/S), arm the approach mode to capture the glide...

This also works well for procedures like the Korry arrival into LGA.

Rat,

If you're in a sitation where ur using the straight in localizer minimums (GS out, or you broke your airplane) then you'd have the option of using the arbie minimums if you're A/C had the capability to identify the arbie fix, which is used with 3.6DME from the LOC. It's not terribly uncommon, just something to help you get a little lower when you're using minimums that'll probalby keep you in the soup.

You mean you dont fly like that all the time??? ;)

:D

Diving?
 

The altitude restrictions depicted in the profile view are valid IF, AND ONLY IF, you are established on the approach (I read that as LOC alive) once that is true, check the DME, if inside of MERCE (<16.2) then start down to cross FAF @2200, or GS intercept, make sense? Otherwise, in the turn, you may not have obstacle clearance or be above min vectoring altitude(not your problem, since you can't tell what it is). Thats most likely why it says maintain 4000 till MERCE on the segment from PERMS to MERCE. There must also be a reason why there is no PT allowed on this approach, perhaps not enough protected airspace with associated obstacle clearance in the LOC path.

Might not be wrong to start down but, not a good idea, IMO. I must first confess, I fly cargo, so I don't really give a hoot about how the boxes feel in the descent, but if planned for, the whole thing should be able to be done smoothly and comfortably for most any aircraft. I have not been to LAX lately, but isn't the speed limit there just 200 KIAS?

I'd maintain 4000 till MERCE or LOC intercept (alive) then descend to the next restriction. I think if you were to do that, you could not be wrong, you just might be intercepting the GS from above, and you should have 10-12 DME to fix it, but maybe only 4-6 DME to meet your carrier's stabilized approach requirements so, your milage may vary.

ImperialxRat

A good question, if you need the extra 80', and you just might on those crappy days with GS inop. As for the when would you use the arbie fix minimums (S-LOC 24R) as opposed to the normal S-LOC mins of 540.?

I think, one uses the ARBIE mins of 460 vice 540 when you are flying the S-LOC 24R and have DME, being careful of the runway lighting status for the RVR restrictions prior to commencing. In other words, you must cross ARBIE at 540, if you can identify ARBIE (has to be with DME at 3.4, and DME is not required equipment for the approach in general, there is the matter of that timing thing;) ), then and only then, you can continue down to 460 on the LOC. Have I missed anything here?

JMHO, standing by to be corrected.

Thanks for all your input guys. When I flew this approach in the sim, coming from the north, I would hit the LOC and be slightly above glide. I'm thinking that joining the gldeslope and then later X-checking it at JETSA is probably the best idea for passengert comfort. And I can't see why it would be illegal.
This is what I fugured: I'm flying at around 140kts in that part of the approach, so zero-wind VS to keep the GS is 700fpm. When I joined the LOC from the north transition I'm already about half-scale high on the GS and rapidly going full scale. If all I wanted was to intercept the GS from there, I'd need a minimum of about 1,000fpm. If instead I wanted to descend faster than the GS, so to hit 2,200 and intercept the GS from below, I would need at least 1,500+ fpm (more like 2000fpm). I'm not sure it would be a good idea to be descending so fast at such low altitude, only to then level-off and wait for the GS to come down. Sounds like a lot more work, power changes and possibility for an unstabilized approach.
Any comments?

Velocipede, thanks for the heads-up. I'll keep that in mind. In my example MERCE is the last step-down-fix before GS intercept, so as long as you are passed MERCE there's nothing to worry about. But if you came from PALAC it might be a different story.

Sounds like you've got the idea. Good luck in your sim check.

Thanks guys for the answers =)

Don't fly IFR in canada then. Intercepting the GS from above with little distance in IMC is common. Its called a short gate approach. Keep peter pan and the easter bunny company in your fantasy world because you won't like the real one.

Beauty. I'm off to get me some Elsinore beer.