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Old 07-23-2016, 03:59 PM   #1  
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Default Sim Time for R-ATP. How to log it?

Hey all,

I'm using 141 Sim time to meet R-ATP mins. How do I log it in my logbook though? Do they want to see the 141 sim time under "total time"?

The 8710 time table does ask for Total Airplane and Total Sim. Does the APD want to see the addition of both under "Total Airplane"?

Thanks!
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Old 07-23-2016, 04:52 PM   #2  
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Sim is not total time. Just keep a separate column for sim.
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:22 PM   #3  
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Depends on the sim.....

I would log it separately, but I think level D sim time counts as airplane time.
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:25 PM   #4  
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but I think level D sim time counts as airplane time.

No, no, no, no.


Certain types of sim time count towards certain FAA requirements INSTEAD of airplane time. That does NOT mean sim time "is" airplane time.

Do not ever claim sim time as airplane time or towards total-time requirements for employers. If employers want sim time, they'll ask for it as a separate category.

Keep sim time separate.
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:29 PM   #5  
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No, no, no, no.


Certain types of sim time count towards certain FAA requirements INSTEAD of airplane time. That does NOT mean sim time "is" airplane time.

Do not ever claim sim time as airplane time or towards total-time requirements for employers. If employers want sim time, they'll ask for it as a separate category.

Keep sim time separate.


I am with you guys. But check out Republic's guidance on this.




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Old 07-23-2016, 06:32 PM   #6  
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Sim is not total time. Just keep a separate column for sim.
Yeah it is. If you need to log sim time for a R-ATP the FAA wants you to log Total time, ME, and Sim.
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Old 07-23-2016, 07:40 PM   #7  
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Yeah it is. If you need to log sim time for a R-ATP the FAA wants you to log Total time, ME, and Sim.


Thanks, Majerus! Any source on this? Appreciate the help


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Old 07-23-2016, 09:16 PM   #8  
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This topic seems to pop up quite a bit in these parts, and that's fair -- it's not all that straighforward. We need to be clear with the terms: total time as a pilot, and total flight time. Both are defined by the CFRs. Generally, when people say total time, they mean total flight time (my logbook column says so, though that's not regulatory, of course). "Total time as a pilot" includes aircraft flight time ("total flight time"), as well as sim and FTD time (not ATD time, though; although that doesn't render ATD time worthless, as it's used for the instrument rating, for example). "Flight time" is time in an aircraft (PIC, instruction received, etc.). "Total time as a pilot" has relatively limited usefulness, BUT in this context it's applicable to certain requirements for the ATP, as OP asks about. Most people don't log "total time as a pilot;" it's far more common to log total flight time, and, as others have said, to separately log sim/FTD time (or ATD time in other contexts). The place where total time as a pilot would be used would be IACRA (formerly your 8710) for the ATP, which asks for your types of time, at which point you'd simply enter flight time and other types of time as appropriate, totaled up in each category, and broken out lower on the form (a common example would be 25 hours of multi airplane FLIGHT time per the reg -- remember this is one form of pilot time, and 25 additional hours of multi pilot time attained in an FTD as part of a 141 or 142 program, or sim time in your 121 training, etc.). Hope that helps, and feel free to follow up if it's still a bit fuzzy.
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:23 PM   #9  
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No, no, no, no.


Certain types of sim time count towards certain FAA requirements INSTEAD of airplane time. That does NOT mean sim time "is" airplane time.

Do not ever claim sim time as airplane time or towards total-time requirements for employers. If employers want sim time, they'll ask for it as a separate category.

Keep sim time separate.
I agree; but to be clear for others on the board, "total time" for the ATP is "total time as a pilot," so in that ONE circumstance the certificate applicant would need to combine total flight time and the appropriate FTD/sim time to reach that total (and would also break them out elsewhere on the form, as directed by IACRA). Agreed that logging total time is almost always "flight" time, especially for job apps and such.
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:29 PM   #10  
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Depends on the sim.....

I would log it separately, but I think level D sim time counts as airplane time.
No, this is a common myth. Level D sims do have some advantages, such as counting for type rating training in place of the actual airplane. But that's a whole different animal, and it's still just sim time. In this context for the ATP, both FTD and sim time is treated the same, and is included in "total time as a pilot," a defined term in the regs, but not "flight time." A limited amount of sim/FTD time may be counted towards the total time as a pilot for the ATP and some sub-categories (I.e. Multi and instrument), but as others have said they should be logged separately and applied as appropriate for the situation/certificate/rating.
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