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Old 02-03-2017, 07:53 PM
  #701  
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Default Interview is soon

After 15 years in law enforcement (our pension is in a bad way so I've decided to pursue my dream of flying) I'm going to interview at Envoy. Im in my mid 40's so I've got to make it to a major, probably within the next 5 years, to have any chance of a livable retirement so I'm sort of pressed on time I guess. Perhaps I should just finish my LE career and then take what little pension I will have and start flying in my early 50's and just sit at a regional and build seniority and enjoy it (if a regional can be enjoyed at all?)

I've chosen Envoy because I live in the DFW area. I've read a lot of this thread but can use some help. I don't understand some of the terminology. I know there has to be something good about Envoy. As for the bad.. things are bad in every industry, every company everywhere. If you want some real negative things go check out some police forums. I have some questions for Envoy pilots and maybe they can also tell me the good things they like and why they joined the company? Or, if it really is that bad, why (and I have read a lot of this thread so I have an idea.. quality of life is a major issue). If they could work at any regional carrier which one would it be?

My questions..

Does reserve time influence upgrade time or is that based solely on seniority and not flight hours? Or a mixture of both?

Are the projected reserve times still current? I saw 8 mos for CRJ at ORD, 2-3 mos for 175 at DFW, 1 year for 145 at DFW.

If that's not correct, which air frame has the shortest projected reserve time?

How does scheduling accommodate pilots in the military regarding deployments or drill weekend? Do deployments affect seniority?

Did Envoy furlough any pilots during the last recession in 2008? I have a feeling we are headed for another one.

I don't understand the required rest periods between flights. I've heard that most regional airlines are horrible at this, so I'm guessing Envoy is no different. How is it REALLY at Envoy?

What are my chances of getting DFW right out of the gate? I'm not too fired up about commuting on reserve. I'll do it if need be, but not exactly my first choice.

When a pilot starts in one airframe, can he/she switch to another? If so how? Do you automatically get put on reserve again or does your company seniority help keep you on the line?

What in the world is "junior manning??"

If someone could take some time and give me a little help I would be grateful.
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Old 02-03-2017, 09:28 PM
  #702  
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Originally Posted by Police2Pilot View Post
After 15 years in law enforcement (our pension is in a bad way so I've decided to pursue my dream of flying) I'm going to interview at Envoy. Im in my mid 40's so I've got to make it to a major, probably within the next 5 years, to have any chance of a livable retirement so I'm sort of pressed on time I guess. Perhaps I should just finish my LE career and then take what little pension I will have and start flying in my early 50's and just sit at a regional and build seniority and enjoy it (if a regional can be enjoyed at all?)

I've chosen Envoy because I live in the DFW area. I've read a lot of this thread but can use some help. I don't understand some of the terminology. I know there has to be something good about Envoy. As for the bad.. things are bad in every industry, every company everywhere. If you want some real negative things go check out some police forums. I have some questions for Envoy pilots and maybe they can also tell me the good things they like and why they joined the company? Or, if it really is that bad, why (and I have read a lot of this thread so I have an idea.. quality of life is a major issue). If they could work at any regional carrier which one would it be?

My questions..

Does reserve time influence upgrade time or is that based solely on seniority and not flight hours? Or a mixture of both?

Are the projected reserve times still current? I saw 8 mos for CRJ at ORD, 2-3 mos for 175 a145 at DFW.

If that's not correct, which air frame has the shortest projected reserve time?

How does scheduling accommodate pilots in the military regarding deployments or drill weekend? Do deployments affect seniority?

Did Envoy furlough any pilots during the last recession in 2008? I have a feeling we are headed for another one.

I don't understand the required rest periods between flights. I've heard that most regional airlines are horrible at this, so I'm guessing Envoy is no different. How is it REALLY at Envoy?

What are my chances of getting DFW right out of the gate? I'm not too fired up about commuting on reserve. I'll do it if need be, but not exactly my first choice.

When a pilot starts in one airframe, can he/she switch to another? If so how? Do you automatically get put on reserve again or does your company seniority help keep you on the line?

What in the world is "junior manning??"

If someone could take some time and give me a little help I would be grateful.
Does reserve time influence upgrade time or is that based solely on seniority and not flight hours? Or a mixture of both?


Nope. Upgrade time is based on seniority only. First in the door, first to upgrade. There is a flight time requirement...3,000 I believe. But it's not a problem for any of our upgrades..so it shouldn't be a problem for you.

Are the projected reserve times still current?

Reserve times change monthly. There is no way to predict exactly what it will be for a particular pilot in a particular seat at a particular base. What we can see is that it is much shorter as we move forward compared to where it was a year ago.

How does scheduling accommodate pilots in the military regarding deployments or drill weekend? Do deployments affect seniority?

You are given military leave just like any other industry. Your seniority doesn't change...you are simply on leave until you come back.

Did Envoy furlough any pilots during the last recession in 2008? I have a feeling we are headed for another one.

Most airlines furloughed in 2008...off the top of my head I can't remember if Envoy/Eagle did or not. I don't believe so..but someone correct me if I'm wrong. I remember we furloughed about 20 in late 2011 during the AA bankruptcy, but those guys were recalled a few months later.

I don't understand the required rest periods between flights. I've heard that most regional airlines are horrible at this, so I'm guessing Envoy is no different. How is it REALLY at Envoy?

FAR 117 governs this...it's a Federal law so airlines have to comply. No choice. The long story short of it is that pilots are required to have a minimum of 10 hours of rest which includes 8 hours of "sleep opportunity". That last part is open to interpretation. In any case, the shortest overnights at Envoy are built with a buffer of sorts. Off the top of my head I know PBC (Puebla, Mexico) is right at 10:30...I think that's one of the shortest if not the shortest. Most overnights are over 15 hours of rest...some 30+ hours which means you get a day off at the overnight city.

What are my chances of getting DFW right out of the gate? I'm not too fired up about commuting on reserve. I'll do it if need be, but not exactly my first choice.

Pretty good. There are two aircraft in DFW, the E145 and E175. We hire into both...so you should be good. Worst case you can base transfer to DFW within a few months.

When a pilot starts in one airframe, can he/she switch to another? If so how? Do you automatically get put on reserve again or does your company seniority help keep you on the line?

You can switch airframes one of two ways. First, you can bid whatever your seniority holds AFTER your seat lock is up. I believe the seatlock for new hires is one year. OR, you can get displaced from one aircraft to another. It's a bit complicated, I know. Let me know if you want me to go deeper into this answer. In any case, your seniority doesn't change. Remember that your seniority at Envoy is your hire date...that never changes. That governs everything you do for the rest of your time here. So even if you were to switch to a new airplane or new base...you would be senior to whoever was hired after you and junior to whoever was hired before you...regardless of how long those other people have been on that plane or at that base.

What in the world is "junior manning??"

That is when you are extended into a day off. Lets say you are flying on Monday and Tuesday is your day off. Scheduling calls, you answer, and they tell you they are junior manning you into an overnight returning tomorrow. So you would work a flight (or flights) on what was originally scheduled to be your day off. That is junior manning. When that happens, you get extra pay and/or an additional day off in return. Normally, junior manning is relatively rare. Recently we have been short staffed on E145 Captains so they have been getting junior manned to a degree I have never seen. FOs are sitting pretty as staffing is good. There are a couple of very large waves of E145 Captains about to hit the line in the next few months, so that should ease the current staffing issue. I believe E175 Captains and FOs are pretty well staffed with few junior mans...but again someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Good luck...let us know if there is anything else we can help with. Hope to see you on board soon!
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:14 AM
  #703  
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First officers are seat locked. Only way to swap airplanes as an fo is if your displaced. Displaced means your position is not longer open.
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:43 AM
  #704  
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Yes, the company furloughed pilots in 2008.

In 2011-2012, 70 pilots were furloughed. They were recalled a few months later, but only 15 of those 70 returned.

FOs can't change equipment unless you are displaced through a displacement bid or until you upgrade to captain.
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Old 02-04-2017, 05:08 AM
  #705  
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Originally Posted by Police2Pilot View Post
When a pilot starts in one airframe, can he/she switch to another? If so how? Do you automatically get put on reserve again or does your company seniority help keep you on the line?
Typically, the most junior 25℅ of pilots in any given status (seat/base/equipment) will be on reserve. So as an FO, you'll be on reserve until enough lineholdering FOs senior to you (in your same base and equipment) either quit or upgrade. After enough folks above you quit or upgraded, you'll be able to hold a line.

After you upgrade to captain, you'll be back on reserve again until enough captains senior to you quit, retire, or flow. Once enough guys senior to you move in, you'll once again be able to hold a line.

A couple years ago, it was taking FOs over 4 years on reserve until we could consistently hold lines. This was during the time when the company was threatening shutdown, parking many airplanes, closing 4 bases in SJU, LAX, MIA, LGA/JFK, doom and gloom, massive stagnation, etc. It's possible the worst of times may be over, as we have already re-opened LGA and temporarily tripled new-hire pay.

I believe at this time we have FOs who started a year ago who are already holding lines, so things have improved somewhat.
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Old 02-04-2017, 05:47 AM
  #706  
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Police2pilot. Remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. I was in your position 16 years ago. Figured I'd trade in the cruiser for a 172, flight instruct for a few years, make the quick jump to Eagle, flow to AA in 5 years, and live a happy life slinging gear on a 757 while overnighting in 5 star hotels in Europe with super hot flight attendants the next 30 years.

Fast forward 16 years. Eagle is now envoy, and I'm still here. Still haven't been to Europe, but often fly over the Paris VOR on my way back to DFW. No 5 star hotels, but I do get the occasional sack lunch with with an apple, granola bar, can of apple juice, and a dry bagel on some early mornings in the hotel lobby of LA Quinta. And the flight attendants...well, they are mostly dudes!

My first contrast between LE and the airline world was the immediate loss of comradary. When a cop dies, the first question asked is, "Where's the funeral?" When a fellow pilot dies, the first question asked is, "What's his seniority number?" You live, and die by your date of hire, not by your merits, skills, or achievements.

Had I stayed in law enforcement, I'd be retired, have a comfortable pension and probably be flying for fun, and working at REI just to get a discount on camping gear. Now I'm still hoping to flow to AA, and often speak with my former coworkers, most of whom are Chiefs, Luitenants, or retired, and listen to stories about their current or upcoming retirements. I'm getting up there in age and now looking forward to commuting for 2-3 years to New York to share a hot bunk with a bunch of other "new hires" in Queens!

Do I regret my decision? Sometimes. I did a lot my first couple of years. If I could do it all over, I would have stayed in Law Enforcement until I could take my earliest retirement, then go fly for a regional and see where it took me. It's a lot more fun sitting at the "donut shop" cutting it up with your buddies while getting paid, than it is sitting around the airport or the hotel for hours waiting for your next flight not getting paid (yes, we get $1.80/hr per diem during those times).

I don't know what's going on with your pension, but if you need to move on, I WOULD definitely recommend envoy. Best training, best maintenance, best travel benefits, best pay, best flow through...horrible schedules! Hope this helps brother. Good luck!
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Old 02-04-2017, 06:55 AM
  #707  
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Originally Posted by Police2Pilot View Post
After 15 years in law enforcement (our pension is in a bad way so I've decided to pursue my dream of flying) I'm going to interview at Envoy. Im in my mid 40's so I've got to make it to a major, probably within the next 5 years, to have any chance of a livable retirement so I'm sort of pressed on time I guess. Perhaps I should just finish my LE career and then take what little pension I will have and start flying in my early 50's and just sit at a regional and build seniority and enjoy it (if a regional can be enjoyed at all?)

I've chosen Envoy because I live in the DFW area. I've read a lot of this thread but can use some help. I don't understand some of the terminology. I know there has to be something good about Envoy. As for the bad.. things are bad in every industry, every company everywhere. If you want some real negative things go check out some police forums. I have some questions for Envoy pilots and maybe they can also tell me the good things they like and why they joined the company? Or, if it really is that bad, why (and I have read a lot of this thread so I have an idea.. quality of life is a major issue). If they could work at any regional carrier which one would it be?
Are the projected reserve times still current? I saw 8 mos for CRJ at ORD, 2-3 mos for 175 at DFW, 1 year for 145 at DFW.

Although Envoy doesn't publish those numbers its a pretty well accepted fact that reserves don't extend past a year for any base/equipment. For FO's, LGA sounds like it has the shortest reserve, while DFW 175 is looking at 8 months to a year reserve. The last class was only offered 6 175s if I'm not mistaken. This could be interpreted as Envoy dialing back on 175 new hires. Less people getting hired behind you = less vertical movement on the seniority list. Same with CRJ, as the company is going to start removing CRJ's from the property, which means less people being hired into it. Only 5 CRJ positions were offered last class.

If that's not correct, which air frame has the shortest projected reserve time?
145 LGA

I don't understand the required rest periods between flights. I've heard that most regional airlines are horrible at this, so I'm guessing Envoy is no different. How is it REALLY at Envoy?
The FAA has legal limitations on required rest; most people at Envoy will complain about the 4 on, 2 off schedules that are common on the lines. If you are commuting, be prepared to spend minimal time at home before you start thinking about getting to the airport for your next trip

What are my chances of getting DFW right out of the gate? I'm not too fired up about commuting on reserve. I'll do it if need be, but not exactly my first choice.
In the past being 40 would mean getting anything you want out of training. As of late, I've been seeing the average age of the group go up to the point that 40 year olds in my class did not get their choice of base/equipment. The only DFW base offered out of training right now seems to be the 175. If you don't get it, grab a 145 and wait for the next vacancy bid (we just had one, next one might be coming around April). You should be able to transfer to the DFW 145. I might be mistaken but I believe everyone in the last class that was able to bid for their desired base (who didn't get it the first day of class) got what they wanted.


Just like everything and everyone else on this forum, take this info with a grain of salt. I'm pretty new here but all this info is based on what I have been hearing from people in class, what management has told us, and what I have read on this forum.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:04 AM
  #708  
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Police2Pilot, contrary to what I read above, RSV does affect your upgrade time. Consider that you need total time and 121 time to upgrade. Total time varies by company, but is typically around 2500-3000. And you must have 1,000 121 (scheduled carrier) hours to upgrade by the FARs.

If you sit on RSV and don't fly much, you accumulate those critical hours much more slowly, usually. Unless the company you choose uses RSV pilots a lot, that is. I have seen RSV guys get less than 100 hours per year. Some fly more. It just all depends. My advice to you would be to find a newer FO on here at each company you are looking at, and ask them how long they sat RSV, and how many hours they averaged per month while on RSV. Bear in mind that RSV needs 6 months ago can be completely different from today, and certainly different 6 months from now. But it can impact your upgrade time, to be sure.

It may be better now, but back when I interviewed at Evoy, RSV time was around 2 years. So I opted not to hang my hat there. Current guys there now can comment and inform you better what you can expect. Good luck in finding a good match for your new career!
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:15 AM
  #709  
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Originally Posted by Eject View Post
Police2pilot. Remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. I was in your position 16 years ago. Figured I'd trade in the cruiser for a 172, flight instruct for a few years, make the quick jump to Eagle, flow to AA in 5 years, and live a happy life slinging gear on a 757 while overnighting in 5 star hotels in Europe with super hot flight attendants the next 30 years.

Fast forward 16 years. Eagle is now envoy, and I'm still here. Still haven't been to Europe, but often fly over the Paris VOR on my way back to DFW. No 5 star hotels, but I do get the occasional sack lunch with with an apple, granola bar, can of apple juice, and a dry bagel on some early mornings in the hotel lobby of LA Quinta. And the flight attendants...well, they are mostly dudes!

My first contrast between LE and the airline world was the immediate loss of comradary. When a cop dies, the first question asked is, "Where's the funeral?" When a fellow pilot dies, the first question asked is, "What's his seniority number?" You live, and die by your date of hire, not by your merits, skills, or achievements.

Had I stayed in law enforcement, I'd be retired, have a comfortable pension and probably be flying for fun, and working at REI just to get a discount on camping gear. Now I'm still hoping to flow to AA, and often speak with my former coworkers, most of whom are Chiefs, Luitenants, or retired, and listen to stories about their current or upcoming retirements. I'm getting up there in age and now looking forward to commuting for 2-3 years to New York to share a hot bunk with a bunch of other "new hires" in Queens!

Do I regret my decision? Sometimes. I did a lot my first couple of years. If I could do it all over, I would have stayed in Law Enforcement until I could take my earliest retirement, then go fly for a regional and see where it took me. It's a lot more fun sitting at the "donut shop" cutting it up with your buddies while getting paid, than it is sitting around the airport or the hotel for hours waiting for your next flight not getting paid (yes, we get $1.80/hr per diem during those times).

I don't know what's going on with your pension, but if you need to move on, I WOULD definitely recommend envoy. Best training, best maintenance, best travel benefits, best pay, best flow through...horrible schedules! Hope this helps brother. Good luck!
My friend. Why are you still with Envoy? I thought the flow was less than 6 years?
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:26 AM
  #710  
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Originally Posted by rondonq1 View Post
My friend. Why are you still with Envoy? I thought the flow was less than 6 years?
Good one Eaglefly! Now go back down to the basement.
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