Compass rumor again?
03-08-2019, 02:30 PM
#11
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Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by stabapch
“gold standard ALPA”
Is that what they tell you? Remember, you’re under ALPA at a regional, not mainline. BIG difference on what kind of “representation” you get when the same Union is representing the guys you’re flying for as well.
The Teamsters trucker Union sucks at times, but I would much rather be represented by them away from ALPA while I’m at a regional.
It’s not just mainline management that prevents flying from coming in-house, ALPA has a hand in keeping the regional system thriving for the benefit of the real pilot groups they represent.
Is that what they tell you? Remember, you’re under ALPA at a regional, not mainline. BIG difference on what kind of “representation” you get when the same Union is representing the guys you’re flying for as well.
The Teamsters trucker Union sucks at times, but I would much rather be represented by them away from ALPA while I’m at a regional.
It’s not just mainline management that prevents flying from coming in-house, ALPA has a hand in keeping the regional system thriving for the benefit of the real pilot groups they represent.
For starters ALPA national doesn’t control the individual MECs. UAL and DAL are both ALPA but two completely different entities (MECs) that look out for their own interests - same goes for the ALPA regionals. Compass and Endeavor have their own MECs with their own objectives.
National only handles the big picture industry wide things like: KCM, rest rules, safety/security enhancements and things of this nature - they do provide resources for the individual MECs like lawyers, negotiators and frameworks for the various programs. They do not set the CBA for any airlines however.
Good way to think about it -
National pushes for the legal minimum rest rules.
The MEC decides what hotel, how nice it is, where it’s at and the confines in choosing it. Naturally a maineline carrier will have better QOL - period.
03-08-2019, 05:14 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Meow1215
This has to be th biggest misconception about ALPA that the same guys representing UAL/DAL also represent UAX/DCI.
For starters ALPA national doesn’t control the individual MECs. UAL and DAL are both ALPA but two completely different entities (MECs) that look out for their own interests - same goes for the ALPA regionals. Compass and Endeavor have their own MECs with their own objectives.
National only handles the big picture industry wide things like: KCM, rest rules, safety/security enhancements and things of this nature - they do provide resources for the individual MECs like lawyers, negotiators and frameworks for the various programs. They do not set the CBA for any airlines however.
Good way to think about it -
National pushes for the legal minimum rest rules.
The MEC decides what hotel, how nice it is, where it’s at and the confines in choosing it. Naturally a maineline carrier will have better QOL - period.
For starters ALPA national doesn’t control the individual MECs. UAL and DAL are both ALPA but two completely different entities (MECs) that look out for their own interests - same goes for the ALPA regionals. Compass and Endeavor have their own MECs with their own objectives.
National only handles the big picture industry wide things like: KCM, rest rules, safety/security enhancements and things of this nature - they do provide resources for the individual MECs like lawyers, negotiators and frameworks for the various programs. They do not set the CBA for any airlines however.
Good way to think about it -
National pushes for the legal minimum rest rules.
The MEC decides what hotel, how nice it is, where it’s at and the confines in choosing it. Naturally a maineline carrier will have better QOL - period.
RAH, represented away from ALPA, managed to pass an industry leading contract FAR above any other regional. Then what happened? The ALPA represented regionals were forced to follow suit. So the largest “airline union” was forced to follow a union with very little airline experience.... why? Again, ALPA has zero interest in regionals and will keep the regional model due to the fact it provides their mainline pilot groups what they want.
It’s not beneficial to work for a regional under ALPA.
03-09-2019, 04:51 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by stabapch
Regardless of MEC, ALPA has zero interest in regional carriers, especially if it negatively impacts mainline. It’s known that ALPA favors the regional model, AKA B-Scale operations. Scope limits only help mainline. ALPA has more than enough power to bring all flying back in-house but they don’t make any effort too. Why? Wells it’s to keep mainline compensation the way it is. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not. IF you make it to mainline or choose to go to mainline. If your not one of those mainline prospects or choose not to be, its very bad working the same job at a small fraction of mainline pay and benefits.
RAH, represented away from ALPA, managed to pass an industry leading contract FAR above any other regional. Then what happened? The ALPA represented regionals were forced to follow suit. So the largest “airline union” was forced to follow a union with very little airline experience.... why? Again, ALPA has zero interest in regionals and will keep the regional model due to the fact it provides their mainline pilot groups what they want.
It’s not beneficial to work for a regional under ALPA.
RAH, represented away from ALPA, managed to pass an industry leading contract FAR above any other regional. Then what happened? The ALPA represented regionals were forced to follow suit. So the largest “airline union” was forced to follow a union with very little airline experience.... why? Again, ALPA has zero interest in regionals and will keep the regional model due to the fact it provides their mainline pilot groups what they want.
It’s not beneficial to work for a regional under ALPA.
03-09-2019, 05:21 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by gojo
This has got to be the most miss guided and slanted version of ALPA I’ve had the privilege to read. Bravo. Even Skywest enjoys many of the benefits of ALPA, and they’re not union at all. Why? It’s because ALPA national works hard for the entire industry. And dues support that. Not to mention that Aeromedical and legal are available to all ALPA members whether mainline or not.
I’m not talking about the benefits ALPA brings to the industry as a whole. I’m talking about individual CBA’s at individual air carriers operating in the B-scale sector compared to carriers not represented by ALPA.
03-09-2019, 05:40 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by stabapch
The only thing “misguided and slanted” here is your interpretation of the message.
I’m not talking about the benefits ALPA brings to the industry as a whole. I’m talking about individual CBA’s at individual air carriers operating in the B-scale sector compared to carriers not represented by ALPA.
I’m not talking about the benefits ALPA brings to the industry as a whole. I’m talking about individual CBA’s at individual air carriers operating in the B-scale sector compared to carriers not represented by ALPA.
03-09-2019, 07:08 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by stabapch
Regardless of MEC, ALPA has zero interest in regional carriers, especially if it negatively impacts mainline. It’s known that ALPA favors the regional model, AKA B-Scale operations. Scope limits only help mainline. ALPA has more than enough power to bring all flying back in-house but they don’t make any effort too. Why? Wells it’s to keep mainline compensation the way it is. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not. IF you make it to mainline or choose to go to mainline. If your not one of those mainline prospects or choose not to be, its very bad working the same job at a small fraction of mainline pay and benefits.
RAH, represented away from ALPA, managed to pass an industry leading contract FAR above any other regional. Then what happened? The ALPA represented regionals were forced to follow suit. So the largest “airline union” was forced to follow a union with very little airline experience.... why? Again, ALPA has zero interest in regionals and will keep the regional model due to the fact it provides their mainline pilot groups what they want.
It’s not beneficial to work for a regional under ALPA.
RAH, represented away from ALPA, managed to pass an industry leading contract FAR above any other regional. Then what happened? The ALPA represented regionals were forced to follow suit. So the largest “airline union” was forced to follow a union with very little airline experience.... why? Again, ALPA has zero interest in regionals and will keep the regional model due to the fact it provides their mainline pilot groups what they want.
It’s not beneficial to work for a regional under ALPA.
And even in that case, RAH wasn’t the first, Endeavor was.
03-09-2019, 07:40 AM
#18
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Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by FollowMe
You don’t understand negotiations and company operations very well. Regionals started having trouble filling their classes in 2015, to help get recruits in the door they upped the pay. These were decisions by the company, not hard fought labor wins by any union.
And even in that case, RAH wasn’t the first, Endeavor was.
And even in that case, RAH wasn’t the first, Endeavor was.
03-09-2019, 07:43 AM
#19
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Posts: 579
Originally Posted by TheWeatherman
No, Republic was initially. You are thinking of the second round of pay hikes.
03-09-2019, 08:23 AM
#20
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Posts: 408
Originally Posted by FollowMe
You don’t understand negotiations and company operations very well. Regionals started having trouble filling their classes in 2015, to help get recruits in the door they upped the pay. These were decisions by the company, not hard fought labor wins by any union.
And even in that case, RAH wasn’t the first, Endeavor was.
And even in that case, RAH wasn’t the first, Endeavor was.
I can’t speak on behalf of other regionals, but at RAH the 2015 CBA was a labor win by the IBT. If the company wanted their way to fill classes, they would have just jacked up the bonuses like some of the bottom feeders are still doing now, while keeping hourly pay neutral. Regardless of pay though, the CBA had A TON more in it that changed everything for the better.
So the company just woke one morning and decided to hand all those benefits over to the pilot group?
And no, brush up on your history, RAH was the first. EDV beat the hourly pay after, but they still didn’t offer the other QOL benefits that RAH’s contract has. Everyone else (ALPA carriers) followed suit to RAH. “Industry Leading 2015 Contract”
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