+SN
05-06-2019, 07:51 AM
#21
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,190
Originally Posted by Viking6
Not worth the risk to me, but you do you!
I can tell you the FAA wants you to use the METAR for HOT calculations though, and that’s from our POI. The tower should issue SPECI or you can request one. Regardless the company will not second guess you, as long as you can support your decision.
I can tell you the FAA wants you to use the METAR for HOT calculations though, and that’s from our POI. The tower should issue SPECI or you can request one. Regardless the company will not second guess you, as long as you can support your decision.
I'll assess WORSE than published, but never better. Good idea to ask for a speci. ORD or LGA might laugh in your face, but most airports would accommodate if they could.
05-06-2019, 11:49 AM
#22
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yeah, if you unilaterally assess WX better than published, and use that to make a go decision that would have otherwise been no-go, you're going out on a limb with no way to prove your case later.
I'll assess WORSE than published, but never better. Good idea to ask for a speci. ORD or LGA might laugh in your face, but most airports would accommodate if they could.
I'll assess WORSE than published, but never better. Good idea to ask for a speci. ORD or LGA might laugh in your face, but most airports would accommodate if they could.
05-06-2019, 01:46 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: Crop duster
Posts: 112
CLT was reporting freezing rain a few years ago. Everyone stopped going to deice pad/runway. Ground asked us why we weren't going to deice, told them no hold over time exists. New ATIS was cut and it magically went to -FZRA. That being said, if vis is down to 1/4 and the only thing affecting visibility is snow, I don't think LGA could not call it +SN. Ground stops and flights cancel at that point. That's been my experience.
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05-06-2019, 01:50 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,276
Don't forget that you have to use the Snowfall Intensities as a Function of Prevailing Visibility chart. If no other obstruction to visibility exists, that chart determines the intensity of snowfall. Even if the ATIS says it is moderate, that chart may bump up the intensity you use for a hold over time to heavy.
05-07-2019, 04:24 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,258
Originally Posted by TheWeatherman
It is not as simple as +SN. What are the circumstances of the +SN. Is it wet sticky snow, or cold dry snow that won't stick to the aircraft and pass a pre take-off contamination check? Just like I am not going to second guess a crew deicing in flurries when not a single flake is sticking to the aircraft while everybody else is taking off without any issues. Sometimes METARs are not true representations of the weather, especially in these days of automated observations.
05-07-2019, 05:06 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,258
Originally Posted by TheWeatherman
It is not as simple as +SN. What are the circumstances of the +SN. Is it wet sticky snow, or cold dry snow that won't stick to the aircraft and pass a pre take-off contamination check? Just like I am not going to second guess a crew deicing in flurries when not a single flake is sticking to the aircraft while everybody else is taking off without any issues. Sometimes METARs are not true representations of the weather, especially in these days of automated observations.
05-07-2019, 05:49 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: Not an RJ driver anymore
Posts: 1,033
when I was at RAH, Captains were restricted not by ops specs, but by fear of getting calls from the ACP and the CP about decisions they made. You'd see CA's deicing for no reason but because some other aircraft chose to get sprayed, they'd get sprayed too. I'm all for being conservative when it comes to flying the jet, but when RAH made you be conservative for the sake of it, it took the decision making out of the CA's hands.
05-07-2019, 06:43 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 307
Originally Posted by TJBrass
"Tower, what are you showing for visibility"
-"What do ya need?"
-"What do ya need?"
