This is why you NEVER sign a training contact
03-03-2023, 06:12 AM
#21
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by Myfingershurt
So was it written in the contract that the students couldn’t work somewhere else while they were waiting for their number to come up at republic? I mean, as long they show up to their class date wouldn’t that negate the lawsuit? Now if they’re working elsewhere and don’t show up to class then that would be a different issue.
Most or all airlines have policy restrictions which prevent pilots from doing certain types of outside flying, especially 121. Mainly to preserve your 117 duty and block for your employer's use.
As uncivil as his response is, JB is correct in that you shouldn't sign an agreement you don't intend to honor. I personally don't think you owe anybody five years of your life (this is 2023, not 1723) but you do need to pay back their money as agreed. Also, this is NOT the old pay-to-play regional scam business model, RAH provided PRIMARY FLIGHT TRAINING, which has very real street value and portability.
I am OK with bailing on training contracts where the employer does not deliver on their end, as specified in the contract. They would have trouble suing you for breach of a contract which they breached first.
03-03-2023, 06:27 AM
#22
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,499
I think there is a totally different issue here that people are overlooking. Not only have these people exposed themselves to the civil liability of breaching their contracts, they have likely now limited their options to going on to a legacy to AT BEST the legacy of whatever regional they are currently employed by. John’s opinion of these people will largely be shared by the hiring teams of most legacies and even some ULCCs. The regional job they jumped to may be the only 121 job they’ll be able to get, and right now a lot of regionals seem to be on borrowed time. Nobody is really desperate enough they need people who play fast and loose with their promises. Not yet anyway.
03-03-2023, 06:30 AM
#23
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by Excargodog
I think there is a totally different issue here that people are overlooking. Not only have these people exposed themselves to the civil liability of breaching their contracts, they have likely now limited their options to going on to a legacy to AT BEST the legacy of whatever regional they are currently employed by. John’s opinion of these people will largely be shared by the hiring teams of most legacies and even some ULCCs. The regional job they jumped to may be the only 121 job they’ll be able to get, and right now a lot of regionals seem to be on borrowed time. Nobody is really desperate enough they need people who play fast and loose with their promises. Not yet anyway.
03-03-2023, 09:37 AM
#24
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by saltbae
Apparently they’re suing people who they promised a job from LIFT Academy and Republic didn’t offer them a job for months so obviously they took a job at other regionals hiring. So Republic failed to fulfill their end of the deal.
Fishy? Sure, especially if it was intentional. That's on the student who signed it, though, not on YX.
03-03-2023, 04:06 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 56
Who would ever want to sell their soul to the devil for 5 years and work for the regionals? Especially when every airline is hiring and you can punch your own ticket and bypass the whole RJ business. Wouldn’t it be easier just to go to all ATP’s and get 1500 hours and go to the ULCC’s and then your legacy of choice?! Just my opinion however I’m old and part of the scumbag bedford $36.62 club
03-04-2023, 11:51 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 417
Originally Posted by APCHCLIMB
Meh. I think it’s more interesting that it never occurs to anyone to fulfill their obligations. And when you don’t there might be legal consequences.
When you make bedfellows with the regionals you get what you pay for.
When you make bedfellows with the regionals you get what you pay for.
The airlines wrote the book on defaulting on contracts when the situation or environment was no longer beneficial to them.
sounds like Republic needs to Fly it and Grieve it to me
03-04-2023, 11:54 AM
#27
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,017
Originally Posted by SEPfield
you mean obligations like CBAs, LOAs, MOUs, Pension Programs, Bonus Programs, Capacity Purchase Agreements, etc?
The airlines wrote the book on defaulting on contracts when the situation or environment was no longer beneficial to them.
sounds like Republic needs to Fly it and Grieve it to me
The airlines wrote the book on defaulting on contracts when the situation or environment was no longer beneficial to them.
sounds like Republic needs to Fly it and Grieve it to me
03-04-2023, 02:48 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 297
I’m no legal expert but I know not all contracts like this are legally enforceable. Entirely depends on the wording. It seems like a risk for Republic to sue these students. Not just the bad PR but the potential for a court to rule the contract as unenforceable. A better approach would have been to structure Lift Academy as a school type loan requiring a payment plan which would be forgiven after 5 years of employment.
While I agree people should generally honor their obligations I don’t think you should pledge blind loyalty to an employer either. Trying to force people to work for you is a bad look. Negotiate a payment plan and then walk away. That being said, none of these articles say that the students didn’t try to do the right thing. I don’t think anyone should throw them under the bus without details.
While I agree people should generally honor their obligations I don’t think you should pledge blind loyalty to an employer either. Trying to force people to work for you is a bad look. Negotiate a payment plan and then walk away. That being said, none of these articles say that the students didn’t try to do the right thing. I don’t think anyone should throw them under the bus without details.
03-04-2023, 03:23 PM
#30
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,499
Originally Posted by FlyinCat
I’m no legal expert but I know not all contracts like this are legally enforceable. Entirely depends on the wording. It seems like a risk for Republic to sue these students. Not just the bad PR but the potential for a court to rule the contract as unenforceable. A better approach would have been to structure Lift Academy as a school type loan requiring a payment plan which would be forgiven after 5 years of employment.
While I agree people should generally honor their obligations I don’t think you should pledge blind loyalty to an employer either. Trying to force people to work for you is a bad look. Negotiate a payment plan and then walk away. That being said, none of these articles say that the students didn’t try to do the right thing. I don’t think anyone should throw them under the bus without details.
While I agree people should generally honor their obligations I don’t think you should pledge blind loyalty to an employer either. Trying to force people to work for you is a bad look. Negotiate a payment plan and then walk away. That being said, none of these articles say that the students didn’t try to do the right thing. I don’t think anyone should throw them under the bus without details.
contract
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A contract is an agreement between parties, creating mutual obligations that are enforceable by law. The basic elements required for the agreement to be a legally enforceable contract are: mutual assent, expressed by a valid offer and acceptance; adequate consideration; capacity; and legality. In some states, elements of consideration can be satisfied by a valid substitute. Possible remedies for breach of contract include general damages, consequential damages, reliance damages, and specific performance.So,
Was there mutual consent? Check
Was there an offer and acceptance? Check and check
Was there consideration, IE., MONEY provided? Check
Was the offer made to someone legally competent to make a contract? Check
Was it legal? Almost certainly. Republic is headquartered in Indiana and I’m sure the Republic lawyers who drafted it are familiar with Indiana law.
In fact, under Indiana law it may be possible for Republic to actually sue the companies that hired these people if Republic can prove that company had knowledge that they were contractually bound to Republic.
intentional interference with contractual relations
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At common law, a defendant is liable to pay damages in tort for actions intended to interfere with the plaintiff's contractual relations with a third party.In an intentional interference claim, the burden is on the plaintiff to prove the elements of the claim rather than on the defendant to prove that its acts were justified. To prevail on the claim, plaintiff must prove four elements: (1) that a valid contract existed, (2) that defendant had knowledge of the contract, (3) that defendant acted intentionally and improperly, and (4) that plaintiff was injured by the defendant’s actions. United Truck Leasing Corp. v. Geltman, 406 Mass. 811, 812, 551 N.E.2d 20 n. 6 (Mass. 1990).
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