Learjet crash in Teterboro
05-17-2017, 09:49 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by PerfInit
What the previous poster is referring to is the inherent low speed handling challenges with the LR-Jet series due to the Fuel Tanks located at the wing tips. Lots of extra weight out there on a large "moment arm". Thus during low speed maneuvering, an overbanking tendency can occur with rapid onset and limited ability to correct for it. Proper airspeed control, adherence to minimum maneuvering speeds (depends on flap setting and weight) and limiting bank angles during maneuvers such as circling to land are normal SOP.
05-17-2017, 01:31 PM
#12
Just Plane Stupid
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Captain
Posts: 457
Originally Posted by PerfInit
What the previous poster is referring to is the inherent low speed handling challenges with the LR-Jet series due to the Fuel Tanks located at the wing tips. Lots of extra weight out there on a large "moment arm". Thus during low speed maneuvering, an overbanking tendency can occur with rapid onset and limited ability to correct for it. Proper airspeed control, adherence to minimum maneuvering speeds (depends on flap setting and weight) and limiting bank angles during maneuvers such as circling to land are normal SOP.
05-17-2017, 02:07 PM
#13
FO
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Position: B777
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by PlaneS
I'm unfamiliar with the Lear, would you mind elaborating on the safety margins you referred to?
I'm sorry. I can't recall what the maximum bank angle limitation is during a circle. It has been a long time.
05-17-2017, 05:54 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: LearJet 31A, 70, PC12NG, PAY31, B200
Posts: 84
We would use Ref +20 back in the airnet days for circling. That speed would all for a small safety margin for turns in the pattern (usually about 20 degrees of bank max when configured). Wx at the time of the crash was gusty, if the crew got low and slow and then combined with an unpredictable gust, could be the perfect setup for a stall/spin event.
Prayers for the victims and their families....
Prayers for the victims and their families....
05-17-2017, 08:23 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by The Plainsman
We would use Ref +20 back in the airnet days for circling. That speed would all for a small safety margin for turns in the pattern (usually about 20 degrees of bank max when configured). Wx at the time of the crash was gusty, if the crew got low and slow and then combined with an unpredictable gust, could be the perfect setup for a stall/spin event.
Prayers for the victims and their families....
Prayers for the victims and their families....
05-18-2017, 03:38 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: F/O Lear 35 & 60
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by HeavyDriver
It's been 30 years from my Learjet days, but I remember a maximum fuel in the tip tanks for landing being about 600lbs? The airplane was a joy to fly, but once you turned the yaw damper OFF for landing. All hands on deck!
05-18-2017, 03:45 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: F/O Lear 35 & 60
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by The Plainsman
We would use Ref +20 back in the airnet days for circling. That speed would all for a small safety margin for turns in the pattern (usually about 20 degrees of bank max when configured). Wx at the time of the crash was gusty, if the crew got low and slow and then combined with an unpredictable gust, could be the perfect setup for a stall/spin event.
Prayers for the victims and their families....
Prayers for the victims and their families....
05-21-2017, 09:14 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by Std Deviation
Similar to the MU2. In the Mitz the correction occurs only with spoilers - a double whammy.
05-22-2017, 07:51 AM
#20
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by Boris Badenov
Hogwash. There's no "overbanking tendency" in a Mitsi. Also, if you're landing with the tips full, you're doing it wrong.
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