Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Safety
SFO Near Miss 28R >

SFO Near Miss 28R

Search
Notices
Safety Accidents, suggestions on improving safety, etc

SFO Near Miss 28R

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-18-2017, 09:08 AM
  #21  
Gets Weekends Off
 
2StgTurbine's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,278
Default

One factor could be the approach lights for the runways. 28L has MALSR and 28R has ALSF-2. The approach lights to 28R are brighter and stick out more than 28L. The crew could have seen the lights for 28R and mistaken them for 28L and therefore shift over to the right. The lights of the airplanes on the taxiway could have added to the confusion.

I had a similar thing happen to me in IAD. Normally the far west runway (19R) is not used late at night, but this night they actually had the east runway (19L) shutdown. I was cleared to land on 19C, so I started to line up with the runway to the right of what I thought was runway 19L. Thankfully I noticed that the localizer was not matching where my brain thought I was and the other crew member pointed out my mistake and I was still 15 miles away.
2StgTurbine is offline  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:04 AM
  #22  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: UnemploymentJet
Posts: 314
Default

From this video, really hard to see how they mistook the taxiway for 28R....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNMtMYUGjnQ
nfnsquared is offline  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:00 AM
  #23  
Banned
 
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
Default

SFO is run pretty fast and loose. It is another accident waiting to happen. Approach issues ambiguous clearances, uses non standard phraseology, and has an "attitude".

I have had two close calls there over the last 5 years, where controllers made serious errors, and tried to cover them up.

One was my takeoff clearance on 1 R , with freighter on 3 mile final,to 28r with no landing lights on. (Rejected takeoff)
Another was emergency braking rolling off the 28l high speed with a an RJ under ground control cleared across our path on "B"at the intersection.

To be fair, it seems they are under a lot of pressure to move metal and it is a difficult geographic environment.

My favorite theses days is the "clearance" to fly the FMS bridge visual, "except maintain 8000", especially when the weather is less than 6 miles vis.

Ya'll be careful, out there.
BMEP100 is offline  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:37 PM
  #24  
Gets Weekends Off
 
blastoff's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,530
Default

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
I'm confused about this as well. Is the Bridge Visual line selectable in the FMS as an approach or STAR (or neither)? i.e. if you select and activate it in the FMS, have you done that in lieu of another approach like an ILS?
The "FMS Bridge visual" is a selectable RNAV approach, complete with glideslope and horizontal guidance. You usually get cleared for it way out on the feeder route from the STAR or with "traffic in sight" if there's traffic on 28L. On the Airbus, having it up precludes using the ILS and vice versa...you could have the ILS in the secondary flight plan and then activate it fairly quickly...totally unnecessary as the RNAV guidance is sufficient.
blastoff is offline  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:40 PM
  #25  
Gets Weekends Off
 
blastoff's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,530
Default

Other than some rumors the day it happened, has it been confirmed 28L was closed (as SFO has been doing several days a week for the last few months)? To me the simplest answer is they didn't review the NOTAM'd runway closure and saw 28R and assumed it was the left (which would have been dark except for the flashing "X")
blastoff is offline  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:11 PM
  #26  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 443
Default

Originally Posted by BMEP100 View Post
SFO is run pretty fast and loose. It is another accident waiting to happen. Approach issues ambiguous clearances, uses non standard phraseology, and has an "attitude".

I have had two close calls there over the last 5 years, where controllers made serious errors, and tried to cover them up.

One was my takeoff clearance on 1 R , with freighter on 3 mile final,to 28r with no landing lights on. (Rejected takeoff)
Another was emergency braking rolling off the 28l high speed with a an RJ under ground control cleared across our path on "B"at the intersection.

To be fair, it seems they are under a lot of pressure to move metal and it is a difficult geographic environment.

My favorite theses days is the "clearance" to fly the FMS bridge visual, "except maintain 8000", especially when the weather is less than 6 miles vis.

Ya'll be careful, out there.
Tell them UBABLE, if need be. This past winter there were many days when the Metar was showing 14025G35KT but magically the ATIS was showing 20025KT so they could land 28s. This was also during heavy rains. If there is ever an accident due to incorrect info given there will be hell to pay.
shfo is offline  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:28 PM
  #27  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Default

Originally Posted by Truthanator View Post
More details are out. These guys flew over the top of two airplanes and below 100 (83?) feet. The height of a 787...55' 10".

28' from striking the 787 tail.

They were about 1-2 seconds..literally... from one of the worst aviation disasters in history.

Unbelievable.
Thank god the United 787 pilot (I believe) said something over the radio for everyone to hear leading to the tower to call the go around. Had the pilots realized their mistake even a second later and called their own go around, they may have very well collided in the reaction time of pushing the power up and arresting the descent.
C130driver is offline  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:04 PM
  #28  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Adlerdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Default

Originally Posted by shfo View Post
Tell them UBABLE, if need be.
I'm not sure that will have the desired effect.
Adlerdriver is offline  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:41 AM
  #29  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,090
Default

Originally Posted by Truthanator View Post
More details are out. These guys flew over the top of two airplanes and below 100 (83?) feet. The height of a 787...55' 10".

28' from striking the 787 tail.

They were about 1-2 seconds..literally... from one of the worst aviation disasters in history.

Unbelievable.
wow, source?
threeighteen is offline  
Old 07-22-2017, 08:19 PM
  #30  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 945
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydUqfhNqUIc

Info from Flight Aware, according to the video.
Mink is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Dave Fitzgerald
United
8
01-23-2014 09:59 PM
Dave Fitzgerald
United
6
07-06-2013 02:34 PM
ryane946
Regional
5
04-08-2007 02:33 PM
SkyHigh
Hangar Talk
28
10-25-2006 08:14 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices