ptarmigan

More directly, once the initial correction to the indicated altitude error was made it would have taken direct input to prevent it.

METO Guido

Yeah well, hard lessons, this line of work has them in spades. Don't really know where Just Culture begins and ends. But there are some things I know a pair of wings won't do for you. Sustaining lift at that deck angle, weight and altitude being one of them. Pure conjecture on my part, this is a pilot and crew that refused to accept they had to come down, no longer within the boundaries of controlled flight. The aforementioned complications of restricted manual flying and only then, exclusively through augmented joy stick pointers coupled to thrust levers that don't move, probably didn't help.

Ever observe guys using procedures trainers or FTD's that aren't intended for maneuvers yet they persist & somehow manage do a pretty fair job of flying the thing? Pilots don't fly like FMS algorithms, they use control authority as presented or remaining available and put the airplane where it must be given present circumstances. In other words, get it right, whatever it takes.

Ernie Gann and the Duke. Never thought I'd see the day their influence departed Just Culture.

ptarmigan

The use of Just Culture as proposed is just a tool to try to dig deeper than "they screwed up" at the early stages of a major investigation.

The problem with the AF447 scenario (which got conflated into this thread) is that it is a lot harder to understand what is happening when you're in the situation than it is when you are reading about the event timeline while knowing the outcome.

METO Guido

I believe that for sure. So how's what occurred important to me? Know your target pitch & power settings verbatim. IVSI pegged down, altimeter winding down, buried in a warning avalanche, "WHO HAS CONTROL?"

Very much appreciate the valuable time given explaining the framework of opinions shared. I read posts to learn, pushing into the corners sometimes to find out if there's more. Happy landings, gentlemen.

ptarmigan

Yes, but add learn what stalls really look like, learn aerodynamics, understand intimately your airplanes systems, including the Flight control system and control algorithms, learn meteorology and how to get the most out of the Weather avoidance equipment installed in your airplane.

Yes, your company SHOULD be training all of this. Don’t hold your breath, you may actually die waiting!