Flight IFO-21 that killed Ron Brown.
02-17-2018, 05:06 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
What Galaxy Flyer said..... I'm curious too about your agenda here.
But, I'll play the game for now in the interest of the discussion:
I'd tune KLP for the whole approach. That would give me:
1. A properly tuned and identified navaid I wouldn't need to change.
2. Proper ID of the FAF which would allow me to descend to the MDA after station passage. One of the most critical aspects of flying this approach would be a safe but aggressive descend to the MDA so a normal glidepath to the runway could be flown once visual with it.
3. Stable course guidance all the way to the MAP or runway.
4. The correct navaid already tuned that's required to fly the missed approach procedure.
I'd program two INS destination using the lat/long of CV and the lat/long for the approach end of the runway.
I'd use INS steering to the CV point until I saw the runway, giving me:
1. Accurate, wind corrected course guidance from KLP to CV
2. Accurate range to CV which would help identify the MAP.
Once I saw the runway, I'd have the other pilot switch the INS destination to the runway point which would provide:
1. Accurate identification of the visual descent point in relation to the runway.
2. Exact range to the runway- allowing adjustments to glide path once leaving the MDA (since no VASIs appear to be available in 1996).
But, I'll play the game for now in the interest of the discussion:
I'd tune KLP for the whole approach. That would give me:
1. A properly tuned and identified navaid I wouldn't need to change.
2. Proper ID of the FAF which would allow me to descend to the MDA after station passage. One of the most critical aspects of flying this approach would be a safe but aggressive descend to the MDA so a normal glidepath to the runway could be flown once visual with it.
3. Stable course guidance all the way to the MAP or runway.
4. The correct navaid already tuned that's required to fly the missed approach procedure.
I'd program two INS destination using the lat/long of CV and the lat/long for the approach end of the runway.
I'd use INS steering to the CV point until I saw the runway, giving me:
1. Accurate, wind corrected course guidance from KLP to CV
2. Accurate range to CV which would help identify the MAP.
Once I saw the runway, I'd have the other pilot switch the INS destination to the runway point which would provide:
1. Accurate identification of the visual descent point in relation to the runway.
2. Exact range to the runway- allowing adjustments to glide path once leaving the MDA (since no VASIs appear to be available in 1996).
02-17-2018, 05:55 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,171
How Adler did it, but he’s a better writer.
GF
GF
02-18-2018, 09:54 AM
#23
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 8
Thanks again for your input guys and I'll tell you what I'm getting at.
Years ago I had read about this and thought it was suspicious in nature. One of the Air Force investigators made an observation that a hole in the top of Ron Brown's head looked like a bullet hole, yet the Air Force chose not to do an autopsy. They did take X-rays, but then those x-rays disappeared. Luckily though, one of the doctors who first saw them made copies.
There was also the case of the tech sergeant Shelly Kelly, who survived the crash, in fact was alive hours after the crash, but died of a broken neck on the ambulance ride to the hospital. This is one part of this story that I found about a half a dozen different versions of. " She was buried under galley equipment, She was seen stumbling around the wreckage hours afterwards, She was flown out by helicopter" and there's others.
I do believe the weather was too bad to land a chopper so they sent her down via an ambulance and I'll be the first to admit that her neck may have been fractured to the point, she could still walk around after the crash, but the ambulance ride on what might at first have been a bumpy ride, could have delivered the coup de grace. But to believe that, I guess we have to believe the medical personnel in this area are a primitive lot and don't know how to stabilize a patient who more than likely had some type of spinal injures.
If by some far stretch of the imagination Ron Brown was shot in the head, who ever did it would want to make sure, nobody heard it. Thus Shelly had to go.
An interesting item I heard is that the Air Force or was it Bill Cllinton ordered all the bodies cremated. I haven't been able to verify that yet.
For those who might not be aware, Ron Brown was Bill Clinton's Commerce Secretary and it's been alleged that he would go around to different countries setting up the same type of sweet heart deals that Hillary Clinton would later do as Secretary of State (Pay to Play). In this case it was En Ron that he was arranging a meeting with the Croatian government.
Ron Brown was in serious legal problems at the time and was probably a week or two from being indicted. He wanted Clinton to get him off some how, but he was in too deep and there was nothing Bill could do for him. Supposedly Ron said if he went to jail, he'd take Clinton with him. Ron Brown had to go.
The biggest problem with trying to set up a crash is how do you control the weather. After all, aren't these trips planned well in advance? Well the area they chose, Croatia certainly wasn't a bad choice for this. It rains on average about twice a week there at that time of year. Still is it possible to arrange bad weather? Well it's interesting to note Dubrovnik wasn't on the original itinerary. Dubrovnik was added about 30 hours before the flight left on the first leg of what was then to be a 5 leg trip.
Why Dubrovnik? Well the vor/ils system had either been blown up or stolen for resale on the black market during the recent war, so all you had was an NDB approach.
Which airplane do you chose? Well you arrange to have one flown in the day before from Cairo, that only had one ADF receiver on it.
So now you have motive, weather, the right airport, the right aircraft.
Of course there was one other very interesting event that happened a few days after the crash. The man who was in charge of maintaining the nav aids at the airport shot himself in the chest and it was ruled a suicide. Of course shooting yourself in the chest is the preferred way of committing suicide in Croatia. Now this happened a day before he was to talk to Air Force investigators.
Now it's very possible this guy may have been very upset that this crash happened at 'his' airport and for some reason he felt responsible. Or there is the remote possibility he knew too much.
So I asked myself what could he have done to make this plane fly off course? I saw someone posted that the beacon was turned 10 degrees but who ever said that had no clue as to how an NDB works. It sends out a signal in all directions and turning the antenna has no affect on it. There's only two things you can do. You can move it to a different location which is very unpractical, or what is more likely all he had to do was shut the NDB off, at a certain time (probably after receiving a phone call), then turn it back on about 5 minutes later and about 1.7 miles away there would be someone with a portable NDB.
Where do you get a portabble NDB? Well here's one made by Telerad. The RBT9300ms is a Transportable 50watt mw ndb. "The transportable NDB 50W RBT9300MS has been designed to meet the requirements of temporary and fast installations:assistance for approach and landing of helicopters on any field. " Of course it will work with airplanes too. This probably would've fit into the back of a pick up truck.
What about the frequency and the morse code identifier? " Frequency programming: 200-535 kHz (100 Hz steps) Programming of the code signal: Up to 3 letters"
http://www.telerad.fr/wp-content/upl...T9300MS-GB.pdf
The military probably has numerous types of transportable or portable ndbs, I'm sure some a lot smaller than this one.
After the plane passed KLP, it would have been only about 11 miles from this ndb and with no obstructions in the way, the plane would have had no problem picking up this signal
So like I said, all the man at the airport had to do was shut down the airport NDB for a set amount of time, then turn it back on and if I'm right, for this he died.
So this was the last item of my list to show that it might have happened that day. Looking at the flight track, after it passed KLP, it flew in a curved fashion for a short distance, then straightened out and flew pretty much a straight course into this mountain. I think during this curved section of flight was the time before they tuned in the CV NDB, especially if they had the coffee grinder control panel that some posters spoke of earlier, or it could've been the type you just flip a switch to get the standby frequency.
But it seems to me nobody in here seems to think they would've tuned in CV. The accident report said the control panel was tuned to KLP which completely blew my idea out of the water. Someone mentioned that when they executed a missed approach, if they were tuned to CV, they would've tuned back to KLP, but it looks like they just started a missed approach by applying power, but never had a chance to bring up the gear or flaps so I doubt they ever had time to tune back to KLP if they had tuned to CV.
Could they have tuned that transportable NDB to the KLP frequency? Yes but I'm sure they didn't. From the radar flight track, they flew right over the real KLP, so I think that's very unlikely.
To arrange something like this, you'd want some of 'your' (Bill Clinton's) boots on the ground to arrange things. It's interesting to note that Hillary flew to Bosnia the week before. This was her famous 'landing under sniper fire' trip. I doubt if she'd dirty her hands in dealing directly with 'people' over there to do the job, but she might have been there to 'supervise' others who came along with her and having her there would have added a lot of leverage to what they were trying to do.
So there was motive to get rid of Ron Brown
There was weather thanks to a change in the flight plan 30 hours prior to the flight
They had the right airport that only had an NDB approach
They had the right aircraft with only one ADF system
As somebody mentioned, there may have been pressure from above to make it to Durbrovnik.
They said a Croatian pilot who had flownthe EnRon executives in earlier, asked to talk to the pilots during the approach on a non tower frequency. What could have been said? Could he have said he used the CV NDB and it brought him right on course with the runway when he broke out of the clouds?
Again the accident report said the ADF was tuned to KLP which disproves my theory, but If they have the power to order the safety part of the investigation skippped and if they have the power to order autopsies not be performed and if they have the power to order all the bodies to be cremated so there is no way left to tell how Ron Brown or Shelly Kelly died, I'm sure they have the power to have a few facts changed in the accident report.
Thanks for listening to my conspiracy theory?
It is a theory, one that would've required a lot of luck, after all, the plane missed clearing that mountain by about 100', but it would not be mission impossible. I don't think this was pilot error. I think something led them or directed them into that mountain.
Years ago I had read about this and thought it was suspicious in nature. One of the Air Force investigators made an observation that a hole in the top of Ron Brown's head looked like a bullet hole, yet the Air Force chose not to do an autopsy. They did take X-rays, but then those x-rays disappeared. Luckily though, one of the doctors who first saw them made copies.
There was also the case of the tech sergeant Shelly Kelly, who survived the crash, in fact was alive hours after the crash, but died of a broken neck on the ambulance ride to the hospital. This is one part of this story that I found about a half a dozen different versions of. " She was buried under galley equipment, She was seen stumbling around the wreckage hours afterwards, She was flown out by helicopter" and there's others.
I do believe the weather was too bad to land a chopper so they sent her down via an ambulance and I'll be the first to admit that her neck may have been fractured to the point, she could still walk around after the crash, but the ambulance ride on what might at first have been a bumpy ride, could have delivered the coup de grace. But to believe that, I guess we have to believe the medical personnel in this area are a primitive lot and don't know how to stabilize a patient who more than likely had some type of spinal injures.
If by some far stretch of the imagination Ron Brown was shot in the head, who ever did it would want to make sure, nobody heard it. Thus Shelly had to go.
An interesting item I heard is that the Air Force or was it Bill Cllinton ordered all the bodies cremated. I haven't been able to verify that yet.
For those who might not be aware, Ron Brown was Bill Clinton's Commerce Secretary and it's been alleged that he would go around to different countries setting up the same type of sweet heart deals that Hillary Clinton would later do as Secretary of State (Pay to Play). In this case it was En Ron that he was arranging a meeting with the Croatian government.
Ron Brown was in serious legal problems at the time and was probably a week or two from being indicted. He wanted Clinton to get him off some how, but he was in too deep and there was nothing Bill could do for him. Supposedly Ron said if he went to jail, he'd take Clinton with him. Ron Brown had to go.
The biggest problem with trying to set up a crash is how do you control the weather. After all, aren't these trips planned well in advance? Well the area they chose, Croatia certainly wasn't a bad choice for this. It rains on average about twice a week there at that time of year. Still is it possible to arrange bad weather? Well it's interesting to note Dubrovnik wasn't on the original itinerary. Dubrovnik was added about 30 hours before the flight left on the first leg of what was then to be a 5 leg trip.
Why Dubrovnik? Well the vor/ils system had either been blown up or stolen for resale on the black market during the recent war, so all you had was an NDB approach.
Which airplane do you chose? Well you arrange to have one flown in the day before from Cairo, that only had one ADF receiver on it.
So now you have motive, weather, the right airport, the right aircraft.
Of course there was one other very interesting event that happened a few days after the crash. The man who was in charge of maintaining the nav aids at the airport shot himself in the chest and it was ruled a suicide. Of course shooting yourself in the chest is the preferred way of committing suicide in Croatia. Now this happened a day before he was to talk to Air Force investigators.
Now it's very possible this guy may have been very upset that this crash happened at 'his' airport and for some reason he felt responsible. Or there is the remote possibility he knew too much.
So I asked myself what could he have done to make this plane fly off course? I saw someone posted that the beacon was turned 10 degrees but who ever said that had no clue as to how an NDB works. It sends out a signal in all directions and turning the antenna has no affect on it. There's only two things you can do. You can move it to a different location which is very unpractical, or what is more likely all he had to do was shut the NDB off, at a certain time (probably after receiving a phone call), then turn it back on about 5 minutes later and about 1.7 miles away there would be someone with a portable NDB.
Where do you get a portabble NDB? Well here's one made by Telerad. The RBT9300ms is a Transportable 50watt mw ndb. "The transportable NDB 50W RBT9300MS has been designed to meet the requirements of temporary and fast installations:assistance for approach and landing of helicopters on any field. " Of course it will work with airplanes too. This probably would've fit into the back of a pick up truck.
What about the frequency and the morse code identifier? " Frequency programming: 200-535 kHz (100 Hz steps) Programming of the code signal: Up to 3 letters"
http://www.telerad.fr/wp-content/upl...T9300MS-GB.pdf
The military probably has numerous types of transportable or portable ndbs, I'm sure some a lot smaller than this one.
After the plane passed KLP, it would have been only about 11 miles from this ndb and with no obstructions in the way, the plane would have had no problem picking up this signal
So like I said, all the man at the airport had to do was shut down the airport NDB for a set amount of time, then turn it back on and if I'm right, for this he died.
So this was the last item of my list to show that it might have happened that day. Looking at the flight track, after it passed KLP, it flew in a curved fashion for a short distance, then straightened out and flew pretty much a straight course into this mountain. I think during this curved section of flight was the time before they tuned in the CV NDB, especially if they had the coffee grinder control panel that some posters spoke of earlier, or it could've been the type you just flip a switch to get the standby frequency.
But it seems to me nobody in here seems to think they would've tuned in CV. The accident report said the control panel was tuned to KLP which completely blew my idea out of the water. Someone mentioned that when they executed a missed approach, if they were tuned to CV, they would've tuned back to KLP, but it looks like they just started a missed approach by applying power, but never had a chance to bring up the gear or flaps so I doubt they ever had time to tune back to KLP if they had tuned to CV.
Could they have tuned that transportable NDB to the KLP frequency? Yes but I'm sure they didn't. From the radar flight track, they flew right over the real KLP, so I think that's very unlikely.
To arrange something like this, you'd want some of 'your' (Bill Clinton's) boots on the ground to arrange things. It's interesting to note that Hillary flew to Bosnia the week before. This was her famous 'landing under sniper fire' trip. I doubt if she'd dirty her hands in dealing directly with 'people' over there to do the job, but she might have been there to 'supervise' others who came along with her and having her there would have added a lot of leverage to what they were trying to do.
So there was motive to get rid of Ron Brown
There was weather thanks to a change in the flight plan 30 hours prior to the flight
They had the right airport that only had an NDB approach
They had the right aircraft with only one ADF system
As somebody mentioned, there may have been pressure from above to make it to Durbrovnik.
They said a Croatian pilot who had flownthe EnRon executives in earlier, asked to talk to the pilots during the approach on a non tower frequency. What could have been said? Could he have said he used the CV NDB and it brought him right on course with the runway when he broke out of the clouds?
Again the accident report said the ADF was tuned to KLP which disproves my theory, but If they have the power to order the safety part of the investigation skippped and if they have the power to order autopsies not be performed and if they have the power to order all the bodies to be cremated so there is no way left to tell how Ron Brown or Shelly Kelly died, I'm sure they have the power to have a few facts changed in the accident report.
Thanks for listening to my conspiracy theory?
It is a theory, one that would've required a lot of luck, after all, the plane missed clearing that mountain by about 100', but it would not be mission impossible. I don't think this was pilot error. I think something led them or directed them into that mountain.
02-18-2018, 11:48 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,171
If the motivation was to get rid of Ron Brown, there’s simpler ways than this. This was thoroughly investigated and the facts speak for themselves.
GF
GF
Last edited by galaxy flyer; 02-18-2018 at 12:05 PM.
02-18-2018, 12:36 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 270
Conspiracy theorist. The cra is strong in this one.
02-18-2018, 12:38 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Scruffydog7347
I think something led them or directed them into that mountain.
I can't believe I got roped into this BS. I knew there was an agenda here but never would have guess it was this bad.
I'm out.
02-18-2018, 12:48 PM
#27
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,171
It was interesting until...... OTOH, we suspected it.
GF
GF
02-19-2018, 04:07 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,026
Get a hobby...get a life...get some THERAPY. It is very apparent that you actually believe in your own concocted B.S.
02-19-2018, 04:31 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
OP - at least you aren't going to be bored chasing down your suspicions for the next.....forever! 
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