Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Safety
ERAU Arrow crash preliminary report >

ERAU Arrow crash preliminary report

Notices
Safety Accidents, suggestions on improving safety, etc

ERAU Arrow crash preliminary report

Old 04-19-2018, 02:51 PM
  #21  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
Default

Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
Would a couple of high speed ( > Vne) dives (low passes) sufficiently weaken the wing.
I was glad when the owner of the flightschool I worked for switched to a whole new fleet.
I knew and flew every airplane from zero hours, hired the CFI’s that flew them and was very friendly with our Head of MX.
I knew what was wrong with each airplane and how it was repaired.
We at one point considered data loggers ( altitude & airspeed).
Not likely a couple Vne dives would cause damage, if performed carefully and in smooth air. As a maintenance test pilot I routinely took aircraft to Vne during return to service flights after any flight control surfaces were replaced. I've also, slightly, exceed Vne per FAA request during flight test of external Mods. This said, Don't recommend it for any other reasons, and it was always done without passengers.

In a flight school environment, I have seen the results of pilots screwing around beyond their or the aircrafts ability. Actually had a renter pilot get a guilty conscience once and confess. He couldn't get to sleep later that evening. He suggested that the aircraft be inspected. Unfortunately, That's not the Norm.
Yoda2 is offline  
Old 04-19-2018, 03:01 PM
  #22  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Default

Originally Posted by Yoda2 View Post
Not likely a couple Vne dives would cause damage, if performed carefully and in smooth air. As a maintenance test pilot I routinely took aircraft to Vne during return to service flights after any flight control surfaces were replaced. I've also, slightly, exceed Vne per FAA request during flight test of external Mods. This said, Don't recommend it for any other reasons, and it was always done without passengers.

In a flight school environment, I have seen the results of pilots screwing around beyond their or the aircrafts ability. Actually had a renter pilot get a guilty conscience once and confess. He couldn't get to sleep later that evening. He suggested that the aircraft be inspected. Unfortunately, That's not the Norm.
I remember watching a special on the development of the A380. When it came time for the flutter testing and high speed dives the test pilots were not as jovial as they were on previous flights.
Blackhawk is offline  
Old 04-19-2018, 03:26 PM
  #23  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
Default

Originally Posted by Blackhawk View Post
I remember watching a special on the development of the A380. When it came time for the flutter testing and high speed dives the test pilots were not as jovial as they were on previous flights.
True statement. Another one that test pilots dislike is the aft CG tests. Thankfully as a maintenance pilot, all those were above my qualifications and pay grade. I was only issued the small set of brass balls
Yoda2 is offline  
Old 04-19-2018, 08:15 PM
  #24  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Default

Originally Posted by Yoda2 View Post
True statement. Another one that test pilots dislike is the aft CG tests. Thankfully as a maintenance pilot, all those were above my qualifications and pay grade. I was only issued the small set of brass balls
I knew a test pilot killed along with two others testing the aft CG of the C-23 Shirpa. They got into a flat spin at 10,000’ and couldn’t get out.
Blackhawk is offline  
Old 04-20-2018, 07:04 AM
  #25  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by Blackhawk View Post
I knew a test pilot killed along with two others testing the aft CG of the C-23 Shirpa. They got into a flat spin at 10,000’ and couldn’t get out.
Ideally you install a drogue chute for that kind of stuff.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 04-20-2018, 01:11 PM
  #26  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Ideally you install a drogue chute for that kind of stuff.
Don't know if they use them on larger airplanes during test flights. I know the crew had personal parachutes. The flight engineer was found close to the door so it was assumed he was trying to bail but couldn't get out if I remember correctly (this was in 1992).
Blackhawk is offline  
Old 04-20-2018, 04:46 PM
  #27  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by Blackhawk View Post
Don't know if they use them on larger airplanes during test flights. I know the crew had personal parachutes. The flight engineer was found close to the door so it was assumed he was trying to bail but couldn't get out if I remember correctly (this was in 1992).
The CRJ had a fatal stall spin test because the drogue deployed but then detached. IIRC one of the pilots may have accidentally pulled the release handle before the deploy handle.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 04-20-2018, 06:48 PM
  #28  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
The CRJ had a fatal stall spin test because the drogue deployed but then detached. IIRC one of the pilots may have accidentally pulled the release handle before the deploy handle.
That wasn't a spin test; they don't normally spin test multiengine airplanes. It was a side slip test, I believe in '93. Several things went wrong on that deal.

The original Canadair Challenger business jet also crashed, at Mojave during certification, aft CG flight test... I remember that well as I stopped into Mojave that morning to get gas; about an hour before it crashed.
Yoda2 is offline  
Old 04-20-2018, 09:09 PM
  #29  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 59
Default

Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
We at one point considered data loggers ( altitude & airspeed).
Wouldn't be surprised of data loggers became the norm at ERAU then every other flight school and renting company.
CaptainYoda is offline  
Old 04-21-2018, 08:45 AM
  #30  
Gets Weekends Off
 
aeroengineer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 324
Default

Personally I've only flown the older Hershey Bar wing Arrows. I can't imagine how many hours some of them had and never an issue I was aware of beyond the old radios sucked. I'm sure the NTSB will check but I'd really like to know if the bolts were properly torqued.

Last edited by aeroengineer; 04-21-2018 at 08:46 AM. Reason: spellun
aeroengineer is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
wannabepilot
Major
32
09-22-2007 01:53 PM
ERJ135
Regional
36
03-08-2007 07:35 PM
ToiletDuck
Corporate
0
01-25-2007 05:41 PM
FlyerJosh
Part 135
0
11-23-2006 05:06 AM
RockBottom
Major
3
06-07-2005 07:07 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices