Pax killed during WN in flight emer...
04-27-2018, 11:53 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Airhoss,
Sadly, carlapilot, might be on to something. Pilots who grow up in a nearly pristine, nothing happens environment like 121 operations don’t experience very much out of the ordinary. I think it’s now statistically likely an airline pilot will never shut down an engine in their career. How many serious emergencies occur? Simulators can only go so far in reducing the so-called startle factor, it takes some real fear-inducing events to teach calm reactions.
The AF 447 crew basically watched an autopilot fly for 6,000 hours until the night it didn’t.
GF
Sadly, carlapilot, might be on to something. Pilots who grow up in a nearly pristine, nothing happens environment like 121 operations don’t experience very much out of the ordinary. I think it’s now statistically likely an airline pilot will never shut down an engine in their career. How many serious emergencies occur? Simulators can only go so far in reducing the so-called startle factor, it takes some real fear-inducing events to teach calm reactions.
The AF 447 crew basically watched an autopilot fly for 6,000 hours until the night it didn’t.
GF
04-27-2018, 12:41 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,916
The Military gave me plenty of experience in emergencies thanks to the beat up old C-130's I flew. 11 Inflight Emergencies from 1982-89. 8 of those were engine shutdowns, not a big deal in a 4 engine plane.
Flying for the airlines from 1989-2005, then Corporate Jets 2005-2017, I have only had 1 instance where we could have declared an emergency when we had to do a no flap landing in the Phenom 300. With a 13500 foot runway I wasn't too worried about it thou. I've had other minor stuff which required a diversion or return to field. Had a couple of medical issues with the airlines but none bad enough to divert over.
So we get trained and do our stuff in the Sim but rarely get a chance to use it for real. And then you get stuff like "Sully" that's not really in the book and you have to pull something out of your rear end. Ditching was barely covered in Airbus Initial (I flew A320 at USAir) and not even mentioned in recurrent training.
That's why I like the 1500 hour requirement for Airlines. I flew with 300-500 hour SIC's at Mesa, some fresh out of the flight academy. Great SIC's to take checkrides with, great when you were allowed to fly a standard ILS (no "170 to the marker") but they were clueless about the energy state of the jet when you needed to do VFR pattern, like when cleared to land on downwind leg. They'd try to turn in way too soon, and I'd have to stop them knowing we'd never get down in time.
Flying for the airlines from 1989-2005, then Corporate Jets 2005-2017, I have only had 1 instance where we could have declared an emergency when we had to do a no flap landing in the Phenom 300. With a 13500 foot runway I wasn't too worried about it thou. I've had other minor stuff which required a diversion or return to field. Had a couple of medical issues with the airlines but none bad enough to divert over.
So we get trained and do our stuff in the Sim but rarely get a chance to use it for real. And then you get stuff like "Sully" that's not really in the book and you have to pull something out of your rear end. Ditching was barely covered in Airbus Initial (I flew A320 at USAir) and not even mentioned in recurrent training.
That's why I like the 1500 hour requirement for Airlines. I flew with 300-500 hour SIC's at Mesa, some fresh out of the flight academy. Great SIC's to take checkrides with, great when you were allowed to fly a standard ILS (no "170 to the marker") but they were clueless about the energy state of the jet when you needed to do VFR pattern, like when cleared to land on downwind leg. They'd try to turn in way too soon, and I'd have to stop them knowing we'd never get down in time.
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