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-   -   When to ignore ATC? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/114814-when-ignore-atc.html)

Karnak 08-01-2018 07:27 AM

So, we're quibbling over getting ATC instructions while we're moving and making callouts to each other?

Like what happens during most phases of flight?

If you're busy, don't respond.

To the controller working tower at JFK who saw us slowing to make the high-speed, and advised us to exit farther down than we'd planned...thanks for "interrupting" our crew callouts! Ending up beak-to-beak with Mr WrongTurn (Air China Cargo) would've been a problem.

To the controller working Tower at MDW that transmitted "Abort!" when one of my brethren mis-heard a takeoff clearance....thanks!

FlyingSlowly 08-01-2018 09:32 PM


Originally Posted by ATCBob (Post 2646301)
... because pilot-in-command safety decisions are always deferred to at least in current FAA culture.

FAR 91.3 is much deeper than current FAA culture.

Adlerdriver 08-01-2018 10:20 PM


Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 2646563)
To the controller working tower at JFK who saw us slowing to make the high-speed, and advised us to exit farther down than we'd planned...thanks for "interrupting" our crew callouts! Ending up beak-to-beak with Mr WrongTurn (Air China Cargo) would've been a problem.

To the controller working Tower at MDW that transmitted "Abort!" when one of my brethren mis-heard a takeoff clearance....thanks!

Do you really not see the difference between the two safety related scenarios you mention and giving basic taxi instructions or asking for a parking location during rollout?
Sure, a crew can obviously choose not to answer. However, the tower controller can exercise some of that same discipline and pick a better time for his administrative radio call. It’s a pretty simple concept. Safety calls are a completely different matter.

Karnak 08-02-2018 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2647390)
Do you really not see the difference between the two safety related scenarios you mention and giving basic taxi instructions or asking for a parking location during rollout?

Sure, I see the difference. So how do you screen your calls from ATC? (Hint: You have to listen to them to screen them).


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2647390)
Sure, a crew can obviously choose not to answer. However, the tower controller can exercise some of that same discipline and pick a better time for his administrative radio call.

Which turnoff might save us time/frustration/embarassment is an "administrative" call, not a "safety" call. I still like getting them.


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2647390)
It’s a pretty simple concept.

Totally agree! The concept of filtering every single thing we hear on our radios during flight is very simple. Hate the Guard Police? Turn it down, or learn to filter it. We don't turn it off because every so often we need to hear what's on Guard - even though 95% of the chatter is stupid. We either turn it down a notch below Center, or we develop skills to screen the chatter for "Hey Delta! Atlanta Center is looking for you on 132.25!" (Fun fact: 95% of the time, that call is for me)


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2647390)
Safety calls are a completely different matter.

Nope. They're a different priority. So until every single ATC call is prefaced with "Safety call!..." or "Normal call..." we're gonna have to adapt to the environment.

I watched a United jet go around at MSP when another pilot queried Tower, "Isn't 30L closed?" as United was over the threshold. Dumb call from the other pilot. Poor filtering from United.

Since callouts from the other pilot is kind of a priority to me, I turn the ICS volume up, and switch my ATC Filter to "Expert Level" for landings.

Adlerdriver 08-02-2018 10:49 AM


Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 2647610)
Nope. They're a different priority. So until every single ATC call is prefaced with "Safety call!..." or "Normal call..." we're gonna have to adapt to the environment.

Yes - we're the filter for most calls. I wasn't suggesting that ATC preface ANY radio call to aid us in doing that. We do just fine already.

My point (and the point of several others here) is that ATC could spend a modicum of effort using their own filter before they hit the transmit button. It's a pretty specific case that we all are talking about - not the wide variety you seem to be using.

A tower controller has taxi instructions to provide to a landing aircraft or (as in the OP's specific situation) wanted to know where he was parking. Admin. Not preventing a nose to nose taxi issue or stopping an aircraft from taking off without clearance. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask any tower controller to think a tiny bit before they transmit to an aircraft that's in the process of bringing their aircraft from touchdown speed to taxi speed. If they decide the call needs to happen at that moment, then make it. Otherwise, let the crew finish the roll out and handle the admin after. Another option would be to give them the clearance or clarify the parking location while they're still out on final.

Just a little common sense.

USMCFLYR 08-02-2018 12:55 PM

In my case yesterday the ‘where are you parking’ request near the end of the landing roll was because it made a difference in where they wanted me to depart the runway. At what point it becomes an issue or not I’m not sure, but I’d say for me so far IME, it hasn’t been an issue thank goodness.

rickair7777 08-03-2018 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 2647390)
Do you really not see the difference between the two safety related scenarios you mention and giving basic taxi instructions or asking for a parking location during rollout?
Sure, a crew can obviously choose not to answer. However, the tower controller can exercise some of that same discipline and pick a better time for his administrative radio call. It’s a pretty simple concept. Safety calls are a completely different matter.

Yes. Pilots are going to be distracted to some degree by any call from ATC, particularly a tower controller. Less experienced pilots might not prioritize as well as older crusty types.

badflaps 08-03-2018 03:29 PM

The Oshkosh tapes are totally amazing.

Karnak 08-12-2018 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by badflaps (Post 2648475)
The Oshkosh tapes are totally amazing.

Oh man! You got that right!

tm602 08-14-2018 08:23 PM

Keep in mind if you read back the turnoff instructions and your partner does not make the turnoff.....you may have a little problem.


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