United Plane Slides off Runway at ORD
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 459
That’s what I did on the 757. Didn’t take much and the board are still up. In fact I doubt they moved at all. On the 777 you have to move the handle quite a bit so I gave up on that technique. Would just apply brake pressure and they’d disconnect fairly smoothly.
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,886
Right from the Boeing Flight Crew Training Manual...Transition from Autobrake to Manual Braking
When transitioning from the autobrake system to manual braking, the PF should notify the PM. Techniques for release of autobrakes can affect passenger comfort and stopping distance. These techniques are:
• Stow the speedbrake handle. When stopping distance within the remaining runway is assured, this method provides a smooth transition to manual braking, is effective before or after thrust reversers are stowed, and is less dependent on manual braking technique
• Smoothly apply brake pedal force as in a normal stop, until the autobrake system disarms. Following disarming of the autobrakes, smoothly release brake pedal pressure. Disarming the autobrakes before coming out of reverse thrust provides a smooth transition to manual braking
• Manually position the autobrake selector off (normally done by the PM at the direction of the PF).
When transitioning from the autobrake system to manual braking, the PF should notify the PM. Techniques for release of autobrakes can affect passenger comfort and stopping distance. These techniques are:
• Stow the speedbrake handle. When stopping distance within the remaining runway is assured, this method provides a smooth transition to manual braking, is effective before or after thrust reversers are stowed, and is less dependent on manual braking technique
• Smoothly apply brake pedal force as in a normal stop, until the autobrake system disarms. Following disarming of the autobrakes, smoothly release brake pedal pressure. Disarming the autobrakes before coming out of reverse thrust provides a smooth transition to manual braking
• Manually position the autobrake selector off (normally done by the PM at the direction of the PF).
#23
For my fellow Guppy FOs, the last two times I went into Chicago in wintery conditions my Captains briefed the ILS to 9R or 9L per the ATIS. I inquired about braking action and runway condition at turn off, and after the suggestion of a longer runway both agreed that 10C was a better choice in the conditions. It made for a much longer taxi in, which wasn't ideal, but on one of the two occasions, the slippery turn off on 10C made my Captain say, "Wow! Glad we changed to the long runway."
Your Captain has more experience, but they will listen to your input. Don't be afraid to suggest a more conservative action if you think its appropriate. You're going for the same ride they are!
Your Captain has more experience, but they will listen to your input. Don't be afraid to suggest a more conservative action if you think its appropriate. You're going for the same ride they are!
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,820
For my fellow Guppy FOs, the last two times I went into Chicago in wintery conditions my Captains briefed the ILS to 9R or 9L per the ATIS. I inquired about braking action and runway condition at turn off, and after the suggestion of a longer runway both agreed that 10C was a better choice in the conditions. It made for a much longer taxi in, which wasn't ideal, but on one of the two occasions, the slippery turn off on 10C made my Captain say, "Wow! Glad we changed to the long runway."
Your Captain has more experience, but they will listen to your input. Don't be afraid to suggest a more conservative action if you think its appropriate. You're going for the same ride they are!
Your Captain has more experience, but they will listen to your input. Don't be afraid to suggest a more conservative action if you think its appropriate. You're going for the same ride they are!
Is it possible to find a longer taxi in than from 9L?
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: B-737 Captain
Posts: 644
From the FM Normals....
"disengage the autobrakes by smoothly applying manual brake pressure or by stowing the speedbrake"
"gradually reduce rev thrust so as to reach rev idle by taxi speed. Stow reversers after engines have decelerated to idle"
My 2 cents....
Smoothly applying manual brake pressure does not mean a quick spike at 120 kts which totally negates the the purpose of ABs.... but it is a good way to melt a fusible plug. How about letting the ABs do their job down to 80 kts or less? unless, of course, you NEED manual braking sooner.
Stowing the ABs with the speedbrake lever is approved and is a great option on a bare and dry 16R in Denver with 10,000 ft to the D5 turn off. Maybe not a good idea in SNA or anywhere when braking advisories are in effect.
Rev idle takes a LONG time and you've got until taxi speed to stow the reversers. What is taxi speed on a slippery surface? SLOW.
"disengage the autobrakes by smoothly applying manual brake pressure or by stowing the speedbrake"
"gradually reduce rev thrust so as to reach rev idle by taxi speed. Stow reversers after engines have decelerated to idle"
My 2 cents....
Smoothly applying manual brake pressure does not mean a quick spike at 120 kts which totally negates the the purpose of ABs.... but it is a good way to melt a fusible plug. How about letting the ABs do their job down to 80 kts or less? unless, of course, you NEED manual braking sooner.
Stowing the ABs with the speedbrake lever is approved and is a great option on a bare and dry 16R in Denver with 10,000 ft to the D5 turn off. Maybe not a good idea in SNA or anywhere when braking advisories are in effect.
Rev idle takes a LONG time and you've got until taxi speed to stow the reversers. What is taxi speed on a slippery surface? SLOW.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,886
For my fellow Guppy FOs, the last two times I went into Chicago in wintery conditions my Captains briefed the ILS to 9R or 9L per the ATIS. I inquired about braking action and runway condition at turn off, and after the suggestion of a longer runway both agreed that 10C was a better choice in the conditions. It made for a much longer taxi in, which wasn't ideal, but on one of the two occasions, the slippery turn off on 10C made my Captain say, "Wow! Glad we changed to the long runway."
Your Captain has more experience, but they will listen to your input. Don't be afraid to suggest a more conservative action if you think its appropriate. You're going for the same ride they are!
Your Captain has more experience, but they will listen to your input. Don't be afraid to suggest a more conservative action if you think its appropriate. You're going for the same ride they are!
Bear in mind, a potential 60 degree increase x-wind component in snow with possible patchy ice may have greater implications on the the end result than 10 degrees.
The Advisory Information (Landing Distance Flaps 30 Braking Action Good) in the PI section of the -900 QRH allows for “reduction” corrections to the raw landing distance... 330’ for each 10,000 lbs < 145,000 lbs... 250’ for each 10 knots of head wind... 160’ for each 10 degree C below ISA.
If Flaps 40 is permitted and used the raw distance is 5,300’ with slight differences to the aforementioned reductions.
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