Drone sightings and Human Paranoia
#11
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,997
Hi guys,
I am an airplane enthusiast as well as a 107 licensed drone pilot. I fly responsibly and by the FAA rules and use common sense. I realize that a lot of you have concerns on the safety over drones and how they are being used . The latest Rash of drones shutting down airports has me concerned and really questioning the validity of all the claims and if there isn’t some sort of hidden agenda. Also what more of a perfect way to get something eliminated then to claim seeing a threat and shutting down an airport. As with most of the sightings, nothing has been proven nor no evidence other than hearsay. All this paranoia over drones need to be stopped and the fact that when a pilot sees something floating in the air ,now it’s automatically a drone, for instance the last sighting over Teterburo, seeing two drones at 3500ft 30 ft off the wing?? Come on guys, let’s get real. This blame drones has gotten out of hand. All it takes is one person to say it looked like a drone , induce paranoia and shut down an airport. But yet it’s amazing that no proof ever comes to light, just hearsay.
I am an airplane enthusiast as well as a 107 licensed drone pilot. I fly responsibly and by the FAA rules and use common sense. I realize that a lot of you have concerns on the safety over drones and how they are being used . The latest Rash of drones shutting down airports has me concerned and really questioning the validity of all the claims and if there isn’t some sort of hidden agenda. Also what more of a perfect way to get something eliminated then to claim seeing a threat and shutting down an airport. As with most of the sightings, nothing has been proven nor no evidence other than hearsay. All this paranoia over drones need to be stopped and the fact that when a pilot sees something floating in the air ,now it’s automatically a drone, for instance the last sighting over Teterburo, seeing two drones at 3500ft 30 ft off the wing?? Come on guys, let’s get real. This blame drones has gotten out of hand. All it takes is one person to say it looked like a drone , induce paranoia and shut down an airport. But yet it’s amazing that no proof ever comes to light, just hearsay.
No proof? Hardly.
James,
Thats the problem. Right now there is no way to prove either or, right now , when a pilot states he seen a drone close , 30ft to the wing, thats what its is , weather on not it was ,Case closed, all because of the negative views on them, and the perceived risk, and everyone runs with it and the damage is done. There is no doubt that some are factual, but no way in every case. I don't blame you guys at all for being concerned, I would be too, but before that drone word is casted across the evening news started by some pilot that thought he saw one, they need to be 100% positive thats what it was.
Eastern,
You are completely right, someone reported seeing drones and the airport was shut down, nothing was found , police even interrogated an innocent couple , just because they new they had interest in the hobby. Probably just another person afraid of drones.
I just find it interesting how the shutdowns across the pond are spreading just like the Paranoia against drones. I guess its the guilty until proven innocent world we live in.
Thats the problem. Right now there is no way to prove either or, right now , when a pilot states he seen a drone close , 30ft to the wing, thats what its is , weather on not it was ,Case closed, all because of the negative views on them, and the perceived risk, and everyone runs with it and the damage is done. There is no doubt that some are factual, but no way in every case. I don't blame you guys at all for being concerned, I would be too, but before that drone word is casted across the evening news started by some pilot that thought he saw one, they need to be 100% positive thats what it was.
Eastern,
You are completely right, someone reported seeing drones and the airport was shut down, nothing was found , police even interrogated an innocent couple , just because they new they had interest in the hobby. Probably just another person afraid of drones.
I just find it interesting how the shutdowns across the pond are spreading just like the Paranoia against drones. I guess its the guilty until proven innocent world we live in.
Increasingly over the past five or six years, we've had numerous cases every year in aerial firefighting in which unmanned aircraft intruded in operations, and the air ops had to be shut down. That puts lives in danger in flight and on the ground, and costs ground resources valuable air support. It's not new and it's not a fad, this issue, but with the ever-increasing numbers of those playing with these toys, the problem also continues to increase, and you're going to see more and more attention drawn to it. For every person that elects to fly one across an airport boundary or into the final approach course of an airport, or that has to get their pictures of an emergency such as a fire or car crash, there will be increased scrutiny and eventually more regulation and loss of privilege.
For those who keep doing it, by all means, have at it; sooner than later you'll find yourself constrained to a gynmasium with real legal consequences.
#12
What it is is a LIABILITY and RISK MANAGEMENT issue.
Now personally, I would be willing to bet that I could survive hitting the average drone with a Piper Cub and emerge with less than a thousand dollars damage and no personal injury, but it isn’t about me
and it isn’t necessarily about an average drone either, it’s about both the safety AND THE ACCEPTANCE OF THAT RISK BY THE PASSENGERS IN BACK.
Our carriage agreement doesn’t say that we are going to fly the aircraft in a situation where we might be hit by a small kamikaze doing something the FAA has already deemed both illegal and unsafe. If we were to voluntarily do that, even if no damage whatever occurred, we buy the liability of “psychological trauma” by every white knuckle passenger aboard as well as any that really don’t give a damn but see a chanc3 to make a fast buck. And if we really do hit something, both the equipment cost and the PTSD claims are going to skyrocket, and that’s just the TYPICAL drone..
Now personally, I would be willing to bet that I could survive hitting the average drone with a Piper Cub and emerge with less than a thousand dollars damage and no personal injury, but it isn’t about me
and it isn’t necessarily about an average drone either, it’s about both the safety AND THE ACCEPTANCE OF THAT RISK BY THE PASSENGERS IN BACK.
Our carriage agreement doesn’t say that we are going to fly the aircraft in a situation where we might be hit by a small kamikaze doing something the FAA has already deemed both illegal and unsafe. If we were to voluntarily do that, even if no damage whatever occurred, we buy the liability of “psychological trauma” by every white knuckle passenger aboard as well as any that really don’t give a damn but see a chanc3 to make a fast buck. And if we really do hit something, both the equipment cost and the PTSD claims are going to skyrocket, and that’s just the TYPICAL drone..
If this is true, why don't we shut down airports when birds are reported in the area? It seems like Sully was elevated to hero status, not the emotional scar of a nation.
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 342
What do you mean, in that it didn't happen?, or they just never found the people responsible? There's a big difference there. One example isn't going to prove much either...There are numerous examples where it did happen, including video footage from the drone itself. Unfortunately, that doesn't often lead to prosecution by itself, because there's no proof necessarily that the person that posted the video is the one that operated the drone, but this is absolutely happening. I've been "fortunate" enough to have been lasered a couple times and I know many other commercial pilots have been as well. Not believing that these things are happening is naive. To all the drone pilots that are making sure to operate as to not create a hazard, who have gone through all the right channels and hoops, thank you.
Other than reports of drone sightings, no evidence exists there was ever any actual drone threat at ELGW in mid-December. This despite significant involvement by law enforcement and the military to identify and nullify the supposed threat.
If it was a hoax or plot of some sort, it seems to me it was accomplished not with drones, but simply by reporting that drones had been seen in the vicinity. Paranoia and overreaction did the rest.
Also, James, I've been retired a couple of years now, but I did work on the front lines at DCA and PCT for 34 years as a controller and supervisor. I probably did a thousand hours on the DEN. I am well aware of the anomalies that occur in the system; I was involved somehow or another in hundreds of them, many of which made the news. What's naive is for you come on this forum and present yourself as the only person with a valid opinion on the subject.
#14
Drone next to aircraft
Don't take my word for it, do your own research.
Like John says, this is happening with increased frequency:
Increasingly over the past five or six years, we've had numerous cases every year in aerial firefighting in which unmanned aircraft intruded in operations, and the air ops had to be shut down.
Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 01-24-2019 at 08:51 AM.
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 342
Perceived threat. I think you are right on about this.
Any objective after-action report on the incident would disclose that their perceptions lead them to make very poor decisions.
#16
What's going to end up happening, is they are all going to have built-in hard boundaries to keep them out of controlled airspace. Updated daily before flight to account for TFR's. Access to controlled airspace by prearranged exception.
It's too easy for just about anybody to obtain and use one of these things. By far the lowest common denominator in the skies. Too low, and it's going to get fixed. Unless the entire drone community can demonstrate remarkable collective self-restraint and avoid any incidents which scare the 121 community. Or even the 91 community. Good luck with that.
We'll know soon enough.
It's too easy for just about anybody to obtain and use one of these things. By far the lowest common denominator in the skies. Too low, and it's going to get fixed. Unless the entire drone community can demonstrate remarkable collective self-restraint and avoid any incidents which scare the 121 community. Or even the 91 community. Good luck with that.
We'll know soon enough.
https://www.nwuav.com/products-uavio...SAAEgJaN_D_BwE
And anyone caught flying without ADS-B on, or if their UAV is detected in an area and altitude where flying is illegal, winds up losing the UAV, some money, and three or four months of their personal freedom.
#17
Risk management. The reality is that more people die of bee stings than they do from snakebites or shark attacks, but the PERCEIVED risk by the general public is what matters. Most homeowners associations won’t bat an eye if you put an apiary in your backyard. And improbable or not, nobody wants to be a fish’s dinner.
Politicians don’t react to ACTUAL threat risk, they react to perceived threat risk.
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: The Dark Side
Posts: 99
That said, I understand your position, and appreciate the fact that you have taken the time to learn the regulations and obtain a Part 107 certificate. I totally get that you don't like seeing your hobby trash talked and threatened. Unfortunately, there are a TON of people that aren't doing things the right way, and they are the ones that are causing problems.
In a perfect world, it would be illegal to purchase a UAS over 0.55 lbs without already holding a Part 107 certificate. That would protect access for folks who do things the right way, and eliminate the "rogue" operators. I don't see that ever happening, though, so it's up to the FAA and industry to work together on this to try and prevent a tragedy from occurring.
#20
What I think is coming is that all UAVs are ultimately going to need ADS-B out individually coded to the owner. It’s easily achievable:
https://www.nwuav.com/products-uavio...SAAEgJaN_D_BwE
And anyone caught flying without ADS-B on, or if their UAV is detected in an area and altitude where flying is illegal, winds up losing the UAV, some money, and three or four months of their personal freedom.
https://www.nwuav.com/products-uavio...SAAEgJaN_D_BwE
And anyone caught flying without ADS-B on, or if their UAV is detected in an area and altitude where flying is illegal, winds up losing the UAV, some money, and three or four months of their personal freedom.
Also need to institute draconian penalties for operating home-built devices without the limiters... those would probably be crooks best case, or terrorists worst case, so not unreasonable.
How do you account for RC airplane hobbyists? I don't know.