I was thinking of American 587. Its amazing how airliners can go from flying to stalling and into full pancake mode without dropping a wing.
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 2775567)
I'm not a fan of the engineering behind the stick shaker activation. I would much rather have something along the lines of the Q-Alpha energy state indicator or similar. https://www.kansas.com/news/business...132377769.html
It also indicates how much float you will have at round out, possibly preventing runway overruns. Simple airmanship. |
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
(Post 2775577)
That does depend on the aircraft though.
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2775953)
That comes down to simple airmanship. You don't need anything to tell you about energy state when landing to prevent an overrun. Fly the appropriate speed and AoA, and land, don't hold it off until midfield, and calculate the landing performance in advance. Now you know, before you go.
Simple airmanship. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2775953)
That comes down to simple airmanship. You don't need anything to tell you about energy state when landing to prevent an overrun. Fly the appropriate speed and AoA, and land, don't hold it off until midfield, and calculate the landing performance in advance. Now you know, before you go.
Simple airmanship. http://www.abilityministry.com/wp-co...12/Knowing.jpg |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 2775984)
Unfortunately, some DO need these warning systems. The Colgan accident for example.
Like JB said, it's simple airmanship. The ones who truly "need" such a warning system to be safe are probably in the wrong line of work. |
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
(Post 2775779)
True. I was specifically thinking of my former aircraft where at HIGH AOA (30+) you intentionally used the rudders for control. Influence with a tad of aileron; but control the turn/bank with the rudders. Once you were actually out-of-control then the second step of the immediate action was 'feet off the rudders' :)
https://youtu.be/335GdTqtyLs?t=59 |
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
(Post 2776288)
:confused: Because the warning system was used and heeded so effectively by the Colgan Captain? I have no problem with a stall warning system, but it's presence in no way guarantees a positive outcome as evidenced by the very accident you cite. A stall warning system doesn't do much good if the user ignores it and pulls harder.
Like JB said, it's simple airmanship. The ones who truly "need" such a warning system to be safe are probably in the wrong line of work. |
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
(Post 2776288)
:confused: Because the warning system was used and heeded so effectively by the Colgan Captain? I have no problem with a stall warning system, but it's presence in no way guarantees a positive outcome as evidenced by the very accident you cite. A stall warning system doesn't do much good if the user ignores it and pulls harder.
Like JB said, it's simple airmanship. The ones who truly "need" such a warning system to be safe are probably in the wrong line of work.
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2776329)
Yeah giving the problem children more info won't usually solve the problem.
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 2775984)
Unfortunately, some DO need these warning systems. The Colgan accident for example.
For starters, that mishap had nothing to do with landing long or an overshoot, so the original assertion that additional displays indicating potential float at roundout" and overshoots, is irrelevant. The colgan mishap had ample warning information, none of which was needed, and the reaction to that warning information was incorrect...all the way to impact. |
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