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thoughts on stalls

Old 03-06-2019, 07:17 AM
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I was thinking of American 587. Its amazing how airliners can go from flying to stalling and into full pancake mode without dropping a wing.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:25 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
I'm not a fan of the engineering behind the stick shaker activation. I would much rather have something along the lines of the Q-Alpha energy state indicator or similar. https://www.kansas.com/news/business...132377769.html
It also indicates how much float you will have at round out, possibly preventing runway overruns.
That comes down to simple airmanship. You don't need anything to tell you about energy state when landing to prevent an overrun. Fly the appropriate speed and AoA, and land, don't hold it off until midfield, and calculate the landing performance in advance. Now you know, before you go.

Simple airmanship.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:38 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
That does depend on the aircraft though.
It’s very aircraft dependent. In many if not a majority of aircraft ailerons introduce adverse yaw when deflected at high AOA. The quickest way to end up on your back in many high performance aircraft was using aileron to try and pick up a wing at high AOA.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
That comes down to simple airmanship. You don't need anything to tell you about energy state when landing to prevent an overrun. Fly the appropriate speed and AoA, and land, don't hold it off until midfield, and calculate the landing performance in advance. Now you know, before you go.

Simple airmanship.
Unfortunately, some DO need these warning systems. The Colgan accident for example.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:08 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
That comes down to simple airmanship. You don't need anything to tell you about energy state when landing to prevent an overrun. Fly the appropriate speed and AoA, and land, don't hold it off until midfield, and calculate the landing performance in advance. Now you know, before you go.

Simple airmanship.
And knowing...
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Old 03-06-2019, 01:52 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
Unfortunately, some DO need these warning systems. The Colgan accident for example.
Because the warning system was used and heeded so effectively by the Colgan Captain? I have no problem with a stall warning system, but it's presence in no way guarantees a positive outcome as evidenced by the very accident you cite. A stall warning system doesn't do much good if the user ignores it and pulls harder.
Like JB said, it's simple airmanship. The ones who truly "need" such a warning system to be safe are probably in the wrong line of work.
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Old 03-06-2019, 02:36 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
True. I was specifically thinking of my former aircraft where at HIGH AOA (30+) you intentionally used the rudders for control. Influence with a tad of aileron; but control the turn/bank with the rudders. Once you were actually out-of-control then the second step of the immediate action was 'feet off the rudders'
So you're saying you had alpha?

https://youtu.be/335GdTqtyLs?t=59
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Old 03-06-2019, 02:41 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
Because the warning system was used and heeded so effectively by the Colgan Captain? I have no problem with a stall warning system, but it's presence in no way guarantees a positive outcome as evidenced by the very accident you cite. A stall warning system doesn't do much good if the user ignores it and pulls harder.
Like JB said, it's simple airmanship. The ones who truly "need" such a warning system to be safe are probably in the wrong line of work.
Yeah giving the problem children more info won't usually solve the problem.
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Old 03-06-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
Because the warning system was used and heeded so effectively by the Colgan Captain? I have no problem with a stall warning system, but it's presence in no way guarantees a positive outcome as evidenced by the very accident you cite. A stall warning system doesn't do much good if the user ignores it and pulls harder.
Like JB said, it's simple airmanship. The ones who truly "need" such a warning system to be safe are probably in the wrong line of work.
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Yeah giving the problem children more info won't usually solve the problem.
And to take it an extreme case, IIRC, the AK C17 crash.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:06 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
Unfortunately, some DO need these warning systems. The Colgan accident for example.
No. Not remotely so.

For starters, that mishap had nothing to do with landing long or an overshoot, so the original assertion that additional displays indicating potential float at roundout" and overshoots, is irrelevant.

The colgan mishap had ample warning information, none of which was needed, and the reaction to that warning information was incorrect...all the way to impact.
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