Originally Posted by sailingfun

The 737 does not have that kind of feature. MCAS trims 2.5 units ND quickly. The rapidly spinning trim wheels and back pressure building in the yoke should be a small clue it’s a trim issue.

Originally Posted by flydrive

Even if the trim motion was in the wrong direction?

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The 737 does not have that kind of feature. MCAS trims 2.5 units ND quickly. The rapidly spinning trim wheels and back pressure building in the yoke should be a small clue it’s a trim issue.

Originally Posted by rickair7777

It is a memory item in all of the conventional types I've flown.

But runaway trim was ALWAYS defined to be continuous elevator trim motion. There was never any consideration of a runaway that would stop and then start up again. It wasn't realistically likely until MCAS, and of course nobody even knew about MCAS initially.

Originally Posted by rickair7777

I've flown a couple types where the trim could move automatically when hand-flying, typically to make hand-flying easier. Trim motion in and of itself was not abnormal (unless it doesn't stop).

Originally Posted by flydrive

I can't fathom how any experienced, competent pilot would see any undesired trim movement, especially with the A/P off, and not immediately think "runaway trim," continuous or not.

Originally Posted by JayMahon

Sooo.... they're SUPER picky about who they allow to sit in the right seat... but don't care that they are hiring people with only 200 hours of experience?

Originally Posted by bugeatr

Just read that according to the cockpit recorder that one pilot was going through the QRH and the other was praying, why in the world was runaway trim not a memory item. Just asking, I'm only a private pilot so put away the knives.

Originally Posted by atpcliff

They are hiring people with ZERO hours. 200 hours are what they have when they finish training. Just like the US military...

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver

Equating a military pilot training program with some ab-initio program to create auto-pilot cripples is hardly a valid comparison. Military training doesn't end with 200 hours and a set of wings. Pilots then continue on with specific a/c training programs before they are considered fully trained. They also wash out weaklings as opposed to giving multiple "do-overs" as long as someone is willing to keep paying the training bills.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

So you are saying you have knowledge of these foreign ab-intro programs?

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer

In the US, no C172 with five checkride busts is getting an airline seat, so that’s a silly argument.

I agree either the US training program or the outside ab initio system can produce safe air carrier pilots. But, someone who has spent loads of classroom time, some instructor-based sim and aircraft time to reach a “200 hour” MPL status has zero experience in the real world rough and tumble operational world. Very little! It’s all “paint by numbers” follow the script ability. Throw a spatial disorienting situation, multiple failures or an ATC curveball like a “slam dunk visual” and the brain circuit breakers start tripping. I’ve seen in the AF flying heavies, recent graduates have loads of answers, some great basic skills, but tell them 20 miles from the field to land visually and it gets interesting to watch. Safety has become very much a product of system reliability, operating within very tight controls.

GF

Originally Posted by atpcliff

My airline is moving towards the Boeing style of training. We now do not have ANY memory checklist items. Everything is done by following the checklist...