Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Safety
Ethiopian 737 MAX 8 crash >

Ethiopian 737 MAX 8 crash

Notices
Safety Accidents, suggestions on improving safety, etc

Ethiopian 737 MAX 8 crash

Old 03-24-2019, 01:27 PM
  #411  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 162
Default

I recall reading a study maybe 15 years ago that tried to find a correlation with accident rates in American civil aviation among a number of indicators. Only two stood out. The number one indicator was FAA written exam scores. The authors theorized this could be explained by weak understanding of material or a lax attitude given the non-rigorous nature of the exams. The second was total time on the very low end. Less than 1000 hours if I recall correctly. Unfortunately, I can't find the report. Maybe somebody on the board has access to it..
Xjrstreetcar is offline  
Old 03-24-2019, 02:52 PM
  #412  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 425
Default

Originally Posted by Xjrstreetcar View Post
There are a number of operators through the years that abandoned sim evals because they saw no correlation with training success. Those that performed well in the sim eval just showed they were supporting the cottage industry of sim prep.
There are prep services for the HR portion (ECIC, Cage, etc), Technical Test (RST), Hogan (Hughes), and UPS sim Eval. Couldn’t your point apply to all aspects of the interview? Whether individuals prep, at least there is an opportunity to check actual flying skill with a sim eval. Maybe the company can make it tougher to prep with 10 different profiles randomly selected in the 737, 320, 757, 767, or whatever sim is available?
rvfanatic is offline  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:49 PM
  #413  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Position: Passenger
Posts: 10
Default

NYT: Airline reps @ Boeing sims find Lion Air Pilots had 40-seconds until aircraft was unrecoverable

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/b...ion-error.html


Lion Air @ 5,200 AGL... 40 seconds

Ethiopian @ 1,200 AGL...
pacnw77 is offline  
Old 03-25-2019, 09:30 PM
  #414  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Adlerdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,987
Default

Originally Posted by rvfanatic View Post
Whether individuals prep, at least there is an opportunity to check actual flying skill with a sim eval. Maybe the company can make it tougher to prep with 10 different profiles randomly selected in the 737, 320, 757, 767, or whatever sim is available?
I don't think a sim eval is doing to accomplish what you think it will. Do you really see significant value in a 15-30 minute snap-shot of someone flying an aircraft (sim) cold that they've potentially never operated before? Climbs, descents, turns, various combos, an ILS - whatever. Most everyone who has attained the requisite experience to get to an interview is probably going to pass this evaluation. The small minority who may be weeded out by a sim evaluation will just as likely have that happen during their new hire training.
Adlerdriver is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 07:13 AM
  #415  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
I don't think a sim eval is doing to accomplish what you think it will. Do you really see significant value in a 15-30 minute snap-shot of someone flying an aircraft (sim) cold that they've potentially never operated before? Climbs, descents, turns, various combos, an ILS - whatever. Most everyone who has attained the requisite experience to get to an interview is probably going to pass this evaluation. The small minority who may be weeded out by a sim evaluation will just as likely have that happen during their new hire training.
Yeah a sim check probably doesn't tell you anything that the training dept. won't figure out. That's why the regionals don't do them anymore... they want the option to evaluate the candidate in training and decide if he's worth extra training to get meat on line.

The only fair way to do a sim eval (if you care about fair) is to use a customizable generic sim (ie not type specific) and provide the candidates some numbers and EP&L's to learn in advance of the interview. Include some emergencies with memory items while hand-flying. If everybody has the stuff to learn in advance, and nobody has access to the sim type in advance that would provide a more even evaluation of base flying ability. You could even use a prop or jet mode depending on the applicant's background. Or just stick with jets. A PC-based sim would be fine, don't need motion.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 10:19 AM
  #416  
:-)
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Default

Originally Posted by pacnw77 View Post
NYT: Airline reps @ Boeing sims find Lion Air Pilots had 40-seconds until aircraft was unrecoverable

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/b...ion-error.html


Lion Air @ 5,200 AGL... 40 seconds

Ethiopian @ 1,200 AGL...
The fix for the Max will probably be more than simply software. The FAA will probably require the aircraft to be rebalanced for certification. That will probably cut a few hundred miles off the aircraft range.
Mesabah is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 12:09 PM
  #417  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
The fix for the Max will probably be more than simply software. The FAA will probably require the aircraft to be rebalanced for certification. That will probably cut a few hundred miles off the aircraft range.
Maybe not. The increased MCAS authority *for one operating cycle* still probably produces enough ND trim to relieve control forces in a stall recovery. It can also, by the sound of it, be manually overridden if needed at that point.

The software fix would just limit it to a single operation, as well as require consensus from two functioning AoA sensors to trigger.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 02:09 PM
  #418  
Moderate Moderator
 
UAL T38 Phlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Default

I’m going to guess flying again by April 15.
UAL T38 Phlyer is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 03:10 PM
  #419  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer View Post
I’m going to guess flying again by April 15.
Sounds about right.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 04:14 PM
  #420  
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
 
B757200ER's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Default

Senate Commerce/Transportation committee hearings on 737MAX tomorrow...NTSB Chairman & acting FAA Administrator to testify.
B757200ER is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
vagabond
Foreign
10
10-10-2013 04:49 AM
ToiletDuck
Safety
5
08-08-2012 09:04 PM
vagabond
Hangar Talk
2
05-05-2007 06:23 PM
LAfrequentflyer
Hangar Talk
1
09-07-2005 11:34 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices