Ethiopian 737 MAX 8 crash
#723
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,883
Yeah I think we pretty much agree on that.
Both accidents were pilot error. A silly and (probably) unnecessary system contributed due to improper systems design philosophy, but for me the buck stops at the fact that this was basically runaway trim and they handled the whole thing wrong on every single count.
Both accidents were pilot error. A silly and (probably) unnecessary system contributed due to improper systems design philosophy, but for me the buck stops at the fact that this was basically runaway trim and they handled the whole thing wrong on every single count.
#724
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/03/12/archives/engineers-warning-on-dc10-reportedly-never-sent.html
The max problems are tragic but not unprecedented. Beginning with the Comet the realm of high speed airliner design has come with a human cost.
The max problems are tragic but not unprecedented. Beginning with the Comet the realm of high speed airliner design has come with a human cost.
#725
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,883
Yup. Another sad case in history that should have never happened. An AA DC10 cargo door blowout and the floor only partially collapsed because it wasn't a full flight and the weight wasn't as big a factor. They lost some hydraulic systems and made an emergency landing in DTW (headed to ORD originally). Nothing was done about the cargo door locking mechanism and then you had the Turkish at Paris, full flight, and this time when it blew out and the floor collapsed, it took every control/hydraulic capability and they were then doomed. So sad. It should have never happened to the Turkish after what happened to the AA flight.
#727
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Window Seat
Posts: 1,430
If you're making excuses for a runaway trim resulting in a crash then I have no words (allowed on this forum) by which to respond. You really shouldn't be at the controls of an airliner if you find their action remotely excusable.
#728
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,923
But there were scary noises, and one cannot be expected to keep speed under Vmo/Mmo if scary noises are present. Only pilots are expected to do that.
Those who sit in the cockpit and let the airplane accelerate to destruction while being distracted by scary noises are...passengers.
But the Ethiopian crew wasn't so distracted that they didn't recognize the problems. They verbalized it: we know this because the cockpit voice recorder summary states that they did. They identified the false data, the cause, and the correct course of action, and they eventually took the steps to stop trim motion.
They just undid them, and failed to fly the damn airplane. Like passengers.
Those who sit in the cockpit and let the airplane accelerate to destruction while being distracted by scary noises are...passengers.
But the Ethiopian crew wasn't so distracted that they didn't recognize the problems. They verbalized it: we know this because the cockpit voice recorder summary states that they did. They identified the false data, the cause, and the correct course of action, and they eventually took the steps to stop trim motion.
They just undid them, and failed to fly the damn airplane. Like passengers.
#729
But there were scary noises, and one cannot be expected to keep speed under Vmo/Mmo if scary noises are present. Only pilots are expected to do that.
Those who sit in the cockpit and let the airplane accelerate to destruction while being distracted by scary noises are...passengers.
But the Ethiopian crew wasn't so distracted that they didn't recognize the problems. They verbalized it: we know this because the cockpit voice recorder summary states that they did. They identified the false data, the cause, and the correct course of action, and they eventually took the steps to stop trim motion.
They just undid them, and failed to fly the damn airplane. Like passengers.
Those who sit in the cockpit and let the airplane accelerate to destruction while being distracted by scary noises are...passengers.
But the Ethiopian crew wasn't so distracted that they didn't recognize the problems. They verbalized it: we know this because the cockpit voice recorder summary states that they did. They identified the false data, the cause, and the correct course of action, and they eventually took the steps to stop trim motion.
They just undid them, and failed to fly the damn airplane. Like passengers.
#730
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,923
Yes, they did, although the procedure forbids it.
Which is irrelevant because the airplane was flyable, had they kept their speed in check.
The trim was controllable, it could be stopped, and whether they could use the trim wheel is irrelevant. If they stopped the trim and never moved it again, they'd be alive, if only they'd flown the airplane and kept their speed, instead of letting the airplane accelerate out of control.
Yes. Failing to do so killed them.
Of course not, because that would be a lie. Their "mistakes" killed them. And everyone else.
But, but, but...
There are a lot of "situations" that we wouldn't be in if things didn't break in aircraft.
Our job is to handle "situations" when things go wrong in aircraft.
The Ethiopian mishap was handleable, and it was flyable, and it could have been returned to the runway safely, if the crew had flown the aircraft instead of accelerated to destruction.
If you do not understand this critical and most basic of concepts, then you are a danger and a liability in the cockpit, and you are a passenger, not a pilot.
Sounds like you're getting paid to rack up those frequent flier miles, because you sound nothing like a pilot.
Which is irrelevant because the airplane was flyable, had they kept their speed in check.
The trim was controllable, it could be stopped, and whether they could use the trim wheel is irrelevant. If they stopped the trim and never moved it again, they'd be alive, if only they'd flown the airplane and kept their speed, instead of letting the airplane accelerate out of control.
Yes. Failing to do so killed them.
Of course not, because that would be a lie. Their "mistakes" killed them. And everyone else.
There are a lot of "situations" that we wouldn't be in if things didn't break in aircraft.
Our job is to handle "situations" when things go wrong in aircraft.
The Ethiopian mishap was handleable, and it was flyable, and it could have been returned to the runway safely, if the crew had flown the aircraft instead of accelerated to destruction.
If you do not understand this critical and most basic of concepts, then you are a danger and a liability in the cockpit, and you are a passenger, not a pilot.
Sounds like you're getting paid to rack up those frequent flier miles, because you sound nothing like a pilot.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post