stabapch

Boeing’s MCAS system is flawed. They need to own up to the fact they *******ed up and they’re the only ones to blame. But they won’t, they’ll use all their corporate power to lobby the FAA in their favor and the corporate media reflects it, adding blame on the pilots. This is a 100 percent system/software failure.

Ethiopian investigators concluded their pilots followed all Boeing’s recommended procedures. United’s CEO publicly said his pilots reported system faults as well. His solution though? “My pilots are trained to disconnect the AP and hand fly.” So we can continue to operate an aircraft with an undocumented “inoperative” and unsafe piece of equipment, because you know, profits over safety.

This crash as well as Lion Air is a direct result of a faulty system and once again proves that cutting costs (and time to meet deadlines) results in mass loss of lives. These guys were unfortunately doomed before engine start thanks to corporate greed. If you’re one to blame this on pilot error, take your comments to the Atlas 767 thread.

dera

Yeah that's what Embraer calls "speed on elevator" - it will hold N1, and pitch for airspeed. If you pitch down, it will overspeed.

It's easy to miss one item from your scan with stick shakers going off and master cautions, GPWS warnings etc, especially something that you're used on being all automatic (speed). This time that, in my opinion, happened to be a critical element in this accident chain.

Adlerdriver

Really? Was it in the procedure after using the stab cut-out switches to accelerate to VMO? I must have missed the page in the checklist displayed in the report that said to turn the cut-out switches back on. Compliance......followed by non-compliance.
Moving the switch Boeing recommends may meet the legalistic definition of compliance, but I think it's reasonable for Boeing to expect a certain level of competence once that step is taken. Returning a malfunctioning system to operation contrary to checklist procedures and trying to deal with a flight control malfunction at max speed while ignoring the throttles is not Boeing's fault. This was a survivable event if it was handled properly.

dera

What a stupid and ignorant comment.

Any "event" is survivable, if handled properly. The question is - why wasn't it handled properly. Boeing and MCAS is a major reason why. They pushed average pilots to a situation where only superior pilots could've managed it.
It's easy to say "oh I would've just flown the plane and trimmed it", from the comfort of your own sofa.

MySaabStory

Well said.

Sofa pilots are Sofa King dumb and hard to listen to.

stabapch

No it’s not reasonable. When you have two crashes under identical situations due to a system fault that basically makes the aircraft unrecoverable, there’s no excuse for that. Boeing screwed up by pushing the Max through production as fast as possible to compete with Airbus, disregarding safety/quality inspections. Then they screwed up again by not taking precautionary steps and initially grounding the max after the Ethiopian crash, but rather state the two crashes are not related and the jet is safe. THEN come out and say, yeah we messed up, but “sorry for the lost lives.” Boeing is no different than any other corporation, they deserve to go under for this. Hopefully many more foreign carriers continue to cancel orders.

flydrive

The crew had the plane under control until they did what Boeing said not to do (turn the electric trim back on).

dera

Look at the yoke position and pitch. That is not "under control".

Adlerdriver

"Any event"? Really?
There are plenty of examples where disaster was going to occur regardless of what the pilots did. This just wasn't one of them.

Am I not being sensitive enough for you? Someone says something you don't like and it's time to start whining and name calling.

Boeing did a terrible job fielding MCAS. No argument from me. Using only one AOA vane for input is equally bad. The system is poorly designed.

Why it wasn't handled properly isn't Boeing's fault or that of MCAS. When the initial, instinctual reaction is to make multiple attempts to turn on the auto-pilot and ignore the thrust setting and airspeed throughout the event - it's obvious where the problem lies. Boeing/MCAS were the catalyst - but they didn't have anything to do with why this problem wasn't handled better. Basic pilot skills - hardly rocket science.

stabapch

You’re right, Boeing and the FAA won’t be able to cover this up forever. Boeing tried to cut corners, due to competition, leading to 100’s of lives lost in two crashes and it blew up right in their face. EASA is keeping the Max grounded indefinitely while they conduct their own investigation and an increasing amount of foreign carriers continue to cancel orders. With the Max as their number 1 seller, it’s not looking too good for Boeing.