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Faa finds another major [737] problem
FAA finds new 'potential risk' in Boeing 737 Max, a setback that could delay plane's return to the skies
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/1577597001/ |
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Do you think it would be possible for Boeing to just remove the Leap engines , change the pylon and put on the old CFMs and call it a 737-800 ish? Sell them cheap and then do a clean sheet design ? It’s really not
Looking good at this point. Any engineer types know ? |
Originally Posted by madmax757
(Post 2843889)
Do you think it would be possible for Boeing to just remove the Leap engines , change the pylon and put on the old CFMs and call it a 737-800 ish? Sell them cheap and then do a clean sheet design ? It’s really not
Looking good at this point. Any engineer types know ? Sure, all it takes is money. |
You could change out the engines, and the worst you would have is a -900 with slightly reduced performance...........Hmm, wait.........
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Supply chains don’t work that way. Production lines have been shut down and retooled. The NG can’t just be turned back on and neither can the CFM56-7 line. Old is out, New is in.....
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Originally Posted by madmax757
(Post 2843889)
Do you think it would be possible for Boeing to just remove the Leap engines , change the pylon and put on the old CFMs and call it a 737-800 ish? Sell them cheap and then do a clean sheet design ? It’s really not
Looking good at this point. Any engineer types know ? Utterly impractical on many levels. Most significantly, if the NG could compete with NEO, they wouldn't have built the max in the first place. Long Term: Lots of (government sponsored) new technology on the horizon to dramatically reduce fuel burn/carbon/emissions. It will take a LOT of R&D money to implement (likely drastic changes to aircraft configuration), so both Boeing and Airbus decided not to drop tens of billions in a clean-sheet narrowbody which might be obsolete in ten years. Normally they would have, and just saved the new tech for the NEXT generation a few decades down the line but regulatory and/or political pressure is very likely to force the implementation of said technology as soon as it's ready (2030, maybe sooner?). |
Where were these Mighty Feds during the certification process?
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Originally Posted by gipple
(Post 2844103)
Where were these Mighty Feds during the certification process?
|
So much excitement to throw wood on the fire, did anyone actually read the article and note that it's full of errors and bad information, and old information, inaccurate descriptions and straw man references? No?
Too busy posting a link and living off the title, rather than bothering to read the article? |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2844134)
So much excitement to throw wood on the fire, did anyone actually read the article and note that it's full of errors and bad information, and old information, inaccurate descriptions and straw man references? No?
Too busy posting a link and living off the title, rather than bothering to read the article? |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2844087)
Lots of (government sponsored) new technology on the horizon to dramatically reduce fuel burn/carbon/emissions. It will take a LOT of R&D money to implement (likely drastic changes to aircraft configuration), so both Boeing and Airbus decided not to drop tens of billions in a clean-sheet narrowbody which might be obsolete in ten years. Normally they would have, and just saved the new tech for the NEXT generation a few decades down the line but regulatory and/or political pressure is very likely to force the implementation of said technology as soon as it's ready (2030, maybe sooner?).
|
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 2844191)
Which ones do you think will be implemented?
I would expect to see some enhanced laminar flow, possibly engine ingested, higher-aspect wings (braced, or active load mitigated). Hybrid power systems will likely play a role. Airliners (much larger than a 1900) will not be battery powered, but a hybrid system which provides a battery to boost T/O, Climb and OEI performance would allow the engines to be optimized for cruise flight... ie smaller. Significant potential fuel savings there. The technical challenge is building a hybrid system where the extra weight of the components doesn't nullify the benefit. Obvious way ahead there is a higher voltage... much higher. Obvious technical challenges to that last... Could also just use a (big) APU to provide the electrical boost for high-thrust phases of flight. Turbine engines themselves will not see any revolutionary improvements... we've already grabbed the low hanging fruit there, other than possibly even bigger/open rotors. You can integrate hybrid motor/generators into the turbine core to implement hybrid power but that will not fundamentally change core efficiency, other than allowing it to be smaller. Cores will get incrementally more efficient, but there's only so much room left there. Also new tech will have to be considered in light of ground operations. A flying wing, or hybrid wing/body, will not fit on current gates for example. Easier to fold the tip extension of a high-aspect ratio wing (a la 777X). |
Current aircraft burn off fuel source leading to an improving effiency curve along stage length.
Its gona be a hard economic sell to haul not only the hybrid hardware but also the static dead weight of the battery across an entire flight when its only value is in boost phase. Ditto for integrated electric drive motors. If their power source is generated by onboard by 'large apu' loss of the source likely jeopardizes the aircraft. And you have to haul that heavy electric powerplant on every flight. Jato would be far more feasable and economical. Likewise for a inflight refuling profile. Both well proven existing technology. a reusable launch sled to altitude that detaches and returns would be an easier design than integrated hybrid drives. The next leap may well be aerodynamic. With a tailess spanloader design. |
Inflight refueling works in theory but I'd be surprised if the regulators ever allow formation flight of airliners.
With any electric drive scheme you'd need redundancy... any combination of turbine engine, APU, battery. Two of something. You could have two cruise optimized turbine main engines, with integrated electric motors on the fan spool. Augment power provided by the APU. Any one could fail. Remember, current engines are sized for OEI... the plane has to climb at MGTOW on one motor. That makes the motors too big for optimal cruise economy. |
Originally Posted by madmax757
(Post 2843889)
Do you think it would be possible for Boeing to just remove the Leap engines , change the pylon and put on the old CFMs and call it a 737-800 ish? Sell them cheap and then do a clean sheet design ? It’s really not
Looking good at this point. Any engineer types know ? Fix MCAS. Re-certify in a proper manner with oversight and adult supervision |
Originally Posted by gipple
(Post 2844103)
Where were these Mighty Feds during the certification process?
|
Defunded during the current administration. The cheetoh in chief thought it was a good idea shut down the the government for the longest period in recorded history.
But that's largely irrelevant, given that certification was met. |
Oversight of Aircraft Certification farmed out to the ODA. ODA’s coming soon to the pilot certification realm. The days are numbered for APM’s and POI’s having direct oversight of Designees. Sad...
|
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2844804)
Defunded during the current administration. The cheetoh in chief thought it was a good idea shut down the the government for the longest period in recorded history.
But that's largely irrelevant, given that certification was met. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2844804)
Defunded during the current administration. The cheetoh in chief thought it was a good idea shut down the the government for the longest period in recorded history.
But that's largely irrelevant, given that certification was met. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2844804)
Defunded during the current administration. The cheetoh in chief thought it was a good idea shut down the the government for the longest period in recorded history.
But that's largely irrelevant, given that certification was met. The shut down didn't happen until almost a year after the first flight and 7 months after first delivery it would be hard even for the most math illiterate liberal to try and connect the two but some how you still tried. |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 2844860)
Not sure you can legitimately hold the current admin culpable.
The pilots are culpable. They're the ones who crashed the damn airplane.
Originally Posted by Bluesideup1
(Post 2844886)
Gotta love the TDS going on with you libs. Make sure not to get a single fact right.
Libs? Anyone who doesn't fall prostrate and worship at the cheetoh alter is a "lib," apparently. Go ahead, use "libtard." Get your inner redneck on and get that ignorance out of your system. I own more guns than you'll ever handle in a lifetime, and probably reload more ammunition than you'll ever see, but am a lib for failure to venerate the enthroned gasbag. Cute. My facts are right. Boeing met the certification requirements. The longest shutdown occurred under the current administration. Both facts, both correct. Boeing's issues with the 737 Max are largely political and owing to trade policies by the current administration. The international groundings were illegal and in violation of the Chicago convention, lacking any specific foundation. Additional issues which may have cropped up during the present review, unrelated and largely badly reported, are as with any type design. I have maintained aircraft that are 70+ years old and still find issues after decades of time in service; problems will continue to crop up and be addressed by service bulletins, airworthiness directives, etc. No surprise there at all. The specific case of the Ethiopian mishap, already heavily discussed and investigated, is very clear one of pilots failing to fly the airplane. There is nowhere in the aircraft flight manual or quick reference handbook which directs the crew to accelerate well past Vmo/Mmo until all control is lost, yet keeping airspeed in check is something taught to every student pilot on the first lesson and reinforced on every one after that. Go figure. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2844911)
I didn't. In fact, I said nothing of the kind. The troll who whined about defunding missed the boat by a mile, and it was to that end I commented.
The pilots are culpable. They're the ones who crashed the damn airplane. TDS? Speak english, not millennial teen-speak. Libs? Anyone who doesn't fall prostrate and worship at the cheetoh alter is a "lib," apparently. Go ahead, use "libtard." Get your inner redneck on and get that ignorance out of your system. I own more guns than you'll ever handle in a lifetime, and probably reload more ammunition than you'll ever see, but am a lib for failure to venerate the enthroned gasbag. Cute. My facts are right. Boeing met the certification requirements. The longest shutdown occurred under the current administration. Both facts, both correct. Boeing's issues with the 737 Max are largely political and owing to trade policies by the current administration. The international groundings were illegal and in violation of the Chicago convention, lacking any specific foundation. Additional issues which may have cropped up during the present review, unrelated and largely badly reported, are as with any type design. I have maintained aircraft that are 70+ years old and still find issues after decades of time in service; problems will continue to crop up and be addressed by service bulletins, airworthiness directives, etc. No surprise there at all. The specific case of the Ethiopian mishap, already heavily discussed and investigated, is very clear one of pilots failing to fly the airplane. There is nowhere in the aircraft flight manual or quick reference handbook which directs the crew to accelerate well past Vmo/Mmo until all control is lost, yet keeping airspeed in check is something taught to every student pilot on the first lesson and reinforced on every one after that. Go figure. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2844804)
Defunded during the current administration. The cheetoh in chief thought it was a good idea shut down the the government for the longest period in recorded history.
But that's largely irrelevant, given that certification was met. |
Originally Posted by trip
(Post 2844968)
What an ignorant comment.
|
JohnBurke is on your ignore list. |
Outstanding.
|
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2845121)
Which part, given that it's fact?
especially when you call people "redneck" or refer to the President as "Cheetoh in chief". |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 2845248)
All of it, your entire view is based on ignorance.
especially when you call people "redneck" or refer to the President as "Cheetoh in chief". READ. And do try to focus. My view is based on facts. What have you to contribute? |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2845258)
READ. And do try to focus. My view is based on facts. What have you to contribute?
|
Thread has gone off the rails... Mods, please lock it up- political
content and cyber-bullying. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2845258)
READ. And do try to focus. My view is based on facts. What have you to contribute?
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 2843927)
“Did you read the article?” “You have a reading comprehension problem.” “Stay focused.” “You’re irrelevant.” -John Burke trademarks :D You’re predictable Mr. Burke :D |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2844911)
I didn't. In fact, I said nothing of the kind. The troll who whined about defunding missed the boat by a mile, and it was to that end I commented.
The pilots are culpable. They're the ones who crashed the damn airplane. TDS? Speak english, not millennial teen-speak. Libs? Anyone who doesn't fall prostrate and worship at the cheetoh alter is a "lib," apparently. Go ahead, use "libtard." Get your inner redneck on and get that ignorance out of your system. I own more guns than you'll ever handle in a lifetime, and probably reload more ammunition than you'll ever see, but am a lib for failure to venerate the enthroned gasbag. Cute. My facts are right. Boeing met the certification requirements. The longest shutdown occurred under the current administration. Both facts, both correct. Boeing's issues with the 737 Max are largely political and owing to trade policies by the current administration. The international groundings were illegal and in violation of the Chicago convention, lacking any specific foundation. Additional issues which may have cropped up during the present review, unrelated and largely badly reported, are as with any type design. I have maintained aircraft that are 70+ years old and still find issues after decades of time in service; problems will continue to crop up and be addressed by service bulletins, airworthiness directives, etc. No surprise there at all. The specific case of the Ethiopian mishap, already heavily discussed and investigated, is very clear one of pilots failing to fly the airplane. There is nowhere in the aircraft flight manual or quick reference handbook which directs the crew to accelerate well past Vmo/Mmo until all control is lost, yet keeping airspeed in check is something taught to every student pilot on the first lesson and reinforced on every one after that. Go figure. TDS: Trump Derangement Syndrome and you have it bad. Because somehow you tried to equate a government shutdown that happened nearly a year after certification on Orange man is bad. Even though the shutdown was because the Democrats wanted to keep illegal aliens in the country instead of deporting them. That is typical of TDS when all reason and facts are thrown out the window and even though this thread was about the Max you somehow injected it with your hatred of Trump even though Trump had nothing to do with it. Seek help or return to your safe space immediately before facts start to hurt your brain. Because the fact is Trump had nothing to do with certification of the Max. |
Originally Posted by PerfInit
(Post 2845294)
Thread has gone off the rails... Mods, please lock it up- political
content and cyber-bullying. |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 2845295)
You’re predictable Mr. Burke :D
Wait, did I break the internet rules by not contributing useful information? Better fill out an ASAP. |
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