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Old 09-07-2019, 08:06 PM   #11  
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Originally Posted by FlyJSH View Post

So if you want to change the ADA or FAA regs to restrict service animals the size of a miniature horse go right ahead. Just realize about half of all service dogs fall into this category, and think about the repercussions.
I grew up hunting large game animals and handling livestock. I rode working horses that weighed over 1200lbs. I can tell just by looking at the pictures that they are a lot thicker than and therefore weigh a lot more than normal dogs. Unless they're made of nerf foam rubber?
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:32 PM   #12  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Not to put too fine a point on it, your comment is horse$hit.

From the American Miniature Horse association website:




FAQs

From a prominent miniature horse breeder:



https://www.scottcreek.com/mini-horse-facts.html

So there are MY REFERENCES, although I can give you a lot more if you’d like. You want to show your references (if any) to support your contention that AN ADULT miniature horse only weighs 70-100#?

My reference (which is in my last post) is from the ADA.gov website. I quoted the pertinent part (seen in italics). And, again, here is the site: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

I will confess I don't know if the ADA is referencing a smaller breed of "miniature" horses than the sites you referenced. That said, I was referencing federal law/federal opinion, and it is the feds who wrote the law.



Edit: I did a bit more research and found indeed therapy and service horses are on the smaller end of the miniature horse spectrum generally 28" or smaller. An example of the live stock for therapy use comes from http://allstarfarm.wixsite.com/miniaturehorses

Now, is the horse in the video in fact a service animal as defined by the ADA? Who knows?

Last edited by FlyJSH; 09-07-2019 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:50 AM   #13  
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How about this novel idea: if you need a service animal over 30lbs then you dont fly. Take a train, take a bus, take a car, or take a boat. Boom, problem solved, since when did air travel become a right? Their right to travel could harm others. Dog bites, allergies, fecal matter everywhere, evacuations, its all stupid. Ban the big dogs also.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:22 AM   #14  
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I've often wondered how people in aisle chairs/srtaight backs are expected to evacuate in an emergency.

ADA vs Safety.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:54 AM   #15  
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My reference (which is in my last post) is from the ADA.gov website. I quoted the pertinent part (seen in italics). And, again, here is the site: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

I will confess I don't know if the ADA is referencing a smaller breed of "miniature" horses than the sites you referenced. That said, I was referencing federal law/federal opinion, and it is the feds who wrote the law.



Edit: I did a bit more research and found indeed therapy and service horses are on the smaller end of the miniature horse spectrum generally 28" or smaller. An example of the live stock for therapy use comes from http://allstarfarm.wixsite.com/miniaturehorses

Now, is the horse in the video in fact a service animal as defined by the ADA? Who knows?

And citing YOUR OWN reference:

Quote:
(Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.)
You cite some anonymous bureaucrat who is clearly wrong, since the horse breed registering authority says differently. Nor is the ADA website directive, since it doesn’t indicate that you can disqualify animals in excess of 100# or 250# or 350# for that matter, and 34” tall adult animals will almost certainly be far closer to 250 than 100#.

And while smaller animals are available, there is nothing requiring that the smaller animal be used or disqualifying larger animals. The ADA website says generally, which is not going to serve as a legal restriction on larger animals.

And the laws of physics, frankly, don’t give a rat’s @$$ about what some anonymous ADA bureaucrat (or Congress itself) thinks is a good idea. Would you seriously want to be on a fifty seat RJ that hits turbulence with 200# of unrestrained animal panicking? With no one to control it but a 110# FA - THE ONLY FA on the aircraft - and an owner who is either him/herself blind or so bat$hit scared of flying that he/she can’t face the fear of flying without a 200# animal in his/her lap? And that was BEFORE they hit the turbulence. And, oh yeah, who do you really want that 110# FA to be dealing with? The stampeding horse going up and down the aisle or the unaccompanied minor in seat 3A? Because he/she can’t do both.

I am not a person lacking in empathy. I get it, the law is well intentioned, but even Congress lacks the authority to repeal the laws of physics.

Inevitably this will get someone hurt or killed.

And then there is the issue of liability. The feds recently told an airline they MAY NOT -as a policy - ban pit bulls, just because they’ve had a series of pit bull ESA bites passenger and/or FA issues. They CAN ban individual pit bulls if they can demonstrate that PARTICULAR pit bull is a risk but no blanket bans. But who makes that decision and what criteria do they use and who buys the liability for the bite?

Some faceless bureaucrat is insisting on far more ‘due process’ for pit bulls than was ever required for male college students under the Dept of Education’s ‘Dear Colleague’ letter. You are basically forced to give powerful animals the benefit of the doubt that they will not act up.

OK, I understand, it’s for the disabled, but if some faceless bureaucrat (or even Congress) actually wants this to happen, the feds ought to eat the liability and legally define the criteria, not pass off the job to a ramp agent or an FA or a couple of pilots with the liability that goes with it. If this is a risk that society has decided to take for the purpose of inclusiveness, then society as a whole should bear the liability.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d LOVE a utopia where everyone is kind and we are all equal and we can be surrounded full time by our loving unicorns and beautiful rainbows, but that ain’t reality. And if there is one thing I have learned in life, it’s that reality will always eventually intrude on wishful thinking.

End rant.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:11 AM   #16  
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https://www.travelandleisure.com/air...ver-turbulence


Quote:
Last August (2016), a JetBlue flight from Boston to Sacramento hit severe turbulence while flying over the midwest.
The incident forced the flight to make an emergency landing in Rapid City, South Dakota, where 24 passengers and three crew members were hospitalized for treatment for their injuries.
Related: JetBlue Turbulence Sends 24 Passengers and Crew to the Hospital
“All of a sudden, the plane just dropped,” passenger Christopher De Vries told The Sacramento Bee, in 2016. “I just saw laptops, candy and soda splashing onto the ceiling.”
“People who didn't buckle their seat belts were flying up and hitting the ceiling,” passenger Alan Lee told NBC News at the time.
The flight is now the subject of two lawsuits. The most recent was filed on Wednesday, according to The Bee, by two passengers who say their injuries sustained during the incident continue to require medical treatment.
So can anyone imagine what adding an unrestrained 250# horse would have done to this situation?

https://www.travelandleisure.com/tra...s-hospitalized

Quote:
33 Passengers on Ryanair Flight Hospitalized After Sudden Loss of Cabin Pressure
BY CAILEY RIZZO JULY 31, 2018

Thirty-three Ryanair passengers were hospitalized Friday after their aircraft lost cabin pressure and was forced to make an emergency landing. Reported injuries included bleeding from the ears, nausea, and headaches.
The European budget airline was operating a flight from Dublin to Zadar, Croatia on July 13 when the cabin suddenly lost pressure about 80 minutes into the flight

“In line with standard procedure, the crew deployed oxygen masks and initiated a controlled descent,” the airline said in a statement.
“We get on the plane, we’re flying and ... the oxygen mask comes down,” passenger Sarah McGarry told the Irish Times. “We’re left in darkness for 15 minutes, there’s no reassurance just people shouting ‘emergency, emergency’.”

Data from FlightRadar24 shows the plane descended more than 25,000 feet in just seven minutes. The flight made an emergency landing in Frankfurt, Germany.

Of the 189 passengers onboard, 33 were admitted to a local hospital for treatment. All injured passengers left the hospital by the following day.
A German investigative team is looking into the cause of the sudden depressurization.
Anybody want to add an unrestrained 250# horse to this situation? Or be the FA trying to restrain the panicky animal?

The point is that given enough time and current policies such an event will happen. That’s something that can easily be anticipated. And after it does happen, after one or more people are killed or seriously injured, we are going to greatly restrict - or do away with altogether - the whole Emotional Support Animal sham.

Why doesn’t the FAA have the cojones to do something about this before such a senseless tragedy occurs?
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:00 PM   #17  
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FWIW, I don't think large dogs should be allowed on planes either. A modest size dog is perfectly suitable as a service animal.

I have sympathy for legit need of a service animal. Not so much for personal fashion statements which would be impractical for me to own as a pet at home (I've got a full house with yard). At least not on airplanes which are uniquely confining, and you can't just stop and get off.
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:05 PM   #18  
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I'm more concerned about lap babies (lap missiles). If you can't afford a ticket for your precious child, you can't afford to go.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:11 PM   #19  
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I'm more concerned about lap babies (lap missiles). If you can't afford a ticket for your precious child, you can't afford to go.
Even if the kid was in a car seat and strapped in, I don’t believe a 250# horse falling on it would do the kid just a h€|| of a lot of good either...
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:36 AM   #20  
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I wonder what the hoof print psi is for a horse like this and if the flooring is rated for that?

This is exactly why I am getting out of the residential property business. ADA requires me to rent to anyone who has a “ comfort”, animal, even though we have a no pets policy. Comfort or service animals are not considered “pets”, according to ADA.

I’m still repairing and cleaning the damage my last tenant’s dog did to the property after she snuck it in, her last 4 months.

I’ll never recover that money/ time.

And BTW, why is it usually the fatties who have these beasts?
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