Boeing recommends 737 Max Sim for all
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/b...gtype=Homepage



"Boeing recommended on Tuesday that pilots train in flight simulators before flying its 737 Max, a move it had previously resisted....."

Boeing recommends simulator training for 737
 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/07/boei...al-delays.html

Boeing recommends simulator training for 737 Max, which could cause additional delays
Published Tue, Jan 7 20201:46 PM ESTUpdated 24 min ago

GP: Boeing Holds A Press Conference Addressing The 737 MAX Software And Training Update

Boeing on Tuesday recommended pilots of the 737 Max undergo simulator training before the beleaguered jets can return to service, a step that could lead to further delays for airline customers.

“This recommendation takes into account our unstinting commitment to the safe return of service as well as changes to the airplane and test results,” Boeing said in a statement. “Final determination will be established by the regulators.”

The decision is a sharp shift for Boeing, which had previously expected training to be computer-based. Easily transitioning pilots from older models of the 737 to the Max when it debuted in 2017 was a key selling point for the plane. Boeing had offered Southwest, its biggest U.S. Max customer, a rebate of $1 million per plane if simulator training was needed when it sold the Dallas-based carrier the aircraft.

The planes have been grounded since mid-March after two fatal crashes in a span of five months killed 346 people. Boeing has developed a software fix for the planes after flight-control program was implicated in both crashes, but regulators have repeatedly said they have no firm timeline to allow the jets to fly again.

“The agency will consider Boeing’s recommendations for flight crew simulator training during the upcoming Joint Operations Evaluation Board,” the Federal Aviation Administration said in a statement, referring to a group of U.S. and international 737 pilots form airlines that operate the Max.

Data from those tests will inform the FAA’s official training recommendations, the FAA said.

“The agency will not approve the aircraft for return to service until all parts of the certification process are completed to its satisfaction,” it said.

Ready... Fire.... Aim.

Great job by the Harvard School of Business and Wharton School of Business MBAs running Boeing. Sure hope they enjoy that corned beef on white bread with mayonnaise with a sour glass of milk.

Let's not forget about the customer that didn't want simulator training at all and has been stagnating for 10 months. Further delays for the employees and customers that have been waiting.

Who is that? AA?

Yep. The engineers are getting the last laugh.

Southwest Airlines wanted another 737 and did not want simulator training. Their contract allowed for $1M rebate if simulator training was required.

So much for the theory that well trained, experienced American pilots would’ve done any better.

That doesn't really say anything on the theory one way or another. Boeing can't well recommend training requirements by country either.

I won't be surprised if the max is renamed though.

Read below. It actually does if you read the article.

The same gist or point is made. Does the article have to mention the word “theory” ? It’s a fact many 737 pilots, non 737 pilots (including Airline CEO’s) were saying our pilots can fly the airplane safely. Others blatantly stated we Americans are trained better and fly better.

SIMULATOR TESTING PROVED OTHERWISE!

“The decision stems from Boeing’s analysis of recent flight simulator tests that were part of the work necessary to return the Max to service, which showed that pilots were not using the right procedures to handle emergencies. Those tests are the latest hurdle for Boeing, which has encountered setback after setback as it tries to fix problems with the Max and persuade regulators that the plane is ready to fly.”

So much for being able to read...

"In the tests, which were part of the work involved in evaluating the software update, many of the pilots did not use the correct procedures to handle emergencies, instead relying on their flying skills. Those results raised questions about whether simply informing pilots of which procedures to use would be sufficient to prepare them to fly the plane."

They handled it just fine, they just relied more on their skill and not the checklist.

Thus indicating, pilots with less skill would not do as well.

Nowhere does it say they handled it "fine." In fact I've been hearing (albeit second-hand) that the sim test was a CF with a significant portion of the pilots (low double-digit percentages) who knew what they were going in to face were unable to safely handle the situation.

Apparently the sim excercises involve AOA disagreements on takeoff. Even without MCAS running. Guys are messing this up. What does this have to do with the MAX? This is just 737 stuff. This explains last month when EASA was saying they want Boeing to change already established procedures/checklist.

This is why the 737 should have been redesigned (either into a new type, or at least like the DC-9/B-717) so that modern technology could be used instead of being faked to replicate the 1960s.... 99.8% of pilots flying this thing weren't even born when it was first built at this point. That's a recipe for disaster here... that's guaranteed disaster in Asia/Africa

Boeing recommends 737 Max Sim for all
 

I stand by what I said. The article says pilots from AA, UA, SW (presumably all experienced and well trained) had issues. And presumably all knew ahead of time what they were going to deal with. Something the accident pilots didn’t know ahead of time.

I’m not blaming pilots. This is obviously an issue with the design that needs specific simulator training. I’m positive all those pilots would handle it better if they had gone through specific sim training.

I’m not buying it. MCAS has been fixed to run off both AOA sensors reading high, and then fire a limited amount only once. No more tug of war. “Those in the know” are being quoted in articles saying the issues guys are having is dealing with an AOA disagree after takeoff. That’s already an established procedure right? Why the problems?

I wonder what they mean by guys using flying skills versus going to checklists. Well newsflash, if the stick shaker is going off then this isn’t the time to throw the AP on. The ETH Capt asked for AP on 3 times with the shaker going off.


So here we are. I still think this whole fiasco being dragged out is because EASA is flexing their muscles over the FAA and Boeing. Let’s be honest, the world won’t look at the FAA to clear this airplane until EASA (Europe) certifies it too.

The Max was born because AA was making a massive airbus order. Boeing met with AA and offered an airplane that would improve fuel burn and keep the same type as their already sizable 800 fleet. They struck a deal. SWA then ordered a boatload of them with the simulator stipulation mostly because the NG line was being shut down.
And here we are....
The blame here lies squarely with Boeing management. They have been in MBA cost cutting mode since the MD merger. This is what happens when you stop building airplanes and start paying shareholders as your primary business.

Yes, it would be awkward for the FAA to go their own way without EASA on this. They dug that hole for themselves though.


I doubt they'll have universal consensus from all regulatory agencies but they probably need EASA and Canada onboard, and maybe Oz too.

Pitch indication disagree (of any sort) can rapidly become a CF.

Same with AS.

Personally I think US major airline pilots could handle a trim runaway fine. But if you don't know which way the airplane is pointing or what AS is doing it can go very wrong, very quickly. For anyone. My personal philosophy is cross-check all three AI's if anything suddenly goes wrong with no warning. Unlike pitot tubes, all three attitude systems cannot fail at once (the standby is a completely different and separate system).


Recent example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_A...den_Flight_294