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-   -   Breath in those toxic fumes (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/127115-breath-those-toxic-fumes.html)

aaatwood 01-31-2020 09:18 AM

Breath in those toxic fumes
 
Boeing has been ignoring this problem far too long. avherald has a report of bad smells in the cockpit and cabin, and diversions caused thereby, every week. Seems like the courts are the only solution left.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...zmq-story.html

CaptainYoda 01-31-2020 11:50 AM

Meanwhile, at Airbus:

https://i.imgur.com/kPqvjqP.png

TiredSoul 01-31-2020 03:34 PM

Subtitles available on this German TV item

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=jHGu83gC6V4

aaatwood 02-02-2020 07:30 AM

OK, Airbus ignores the problem as well. Doesn't mean we shouldn't fix it.

Texasbound 02-02-2020 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by aaatwood (Post 2969595)
OK, Airbus ignores the problem as well. Doesn't mean we shouldn't fix it.


At what problem would that be, the design flaw they speak of?? Using bleed air to pressurize the cabin? Who ever came up with that stupid idea?

Excargodog 02-02-2020 01:30 PM

I read that during WWI a lot of the fighter plane engines (which generated all of 100hp) used castor oil as a lubricant. The exhaust from which would then hit the pilot in the face.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...4#rebelltitem4


not exactly toxic per se, but the $hits nonetheless. :o񹙋񹙋񹙋​

rickair7777 02-03-2020 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by Texasbound (Post 2969738)
At what problem would that be, the design flaw they speak of?? Using bleed air to pressurize the cabin? Who ever came up with that stupid idea?

There does exists the potential for toxic fluids to get past seals and into the bleed air. Also demonstrated that some fluids can be altered by the heat of compression at the bleed stage to produce REALLY toxic chemicals (ie nerve gas).

In future designs cabin air will probably be produced by an electric pressurization/HVAC unit like the 787. Or at least will have some more robust filters.

UAL T38 Phlyer 02-03-2020 12:09 PM

Jet-turbine oil contains Tri-Cresyl Phosphate as a stabilizing additive. The problem: it acts like other organophosphates....it’s a nerve-agent.

If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.

The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.

But it may be there is no other alternative.

rickair7777 02-03-2020 01:10 PM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 2970289)
Jet-turbine oil contains Tri-Cresyl Phosphate as a stabilizing additive. The problem: it acts like other organophosphates....it’s a nerve-agent.

If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.

The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.

But it may be there is no other alternative.

Future planes don't need to use bleed air for the cabin.

Getting rid of certain additives might be good, but honestly I don't want to breath ANY complex hydrocarbons (especially after they've been cooked). I believe filters are a viable option, but they would expensive and heavy enough enough that it would take regulatory intervention to get them into widespread use (like fuel tank inerting retro-fits).

tomgoodman 02-03-2020 04:09 PM

Turbocompressors
 
The B-707 used a turbocompressor for A/C (the small inlet above the cowl). It was driven by 16th stage bleed air, but provided outside air instead of bleed air to the cabin.

https://images.app.goo.gl/RXxmeprqwmwK2nYz9


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