Breath in those toxic fumes
01-31-2020, 09:18 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: GA pilot
Posts: 38
Breath in those toxic fumes
Boeing has been ignoring this problem far too long. avherald has a report of bad smells in the cockpit and cabin, and diversions caused thereby, every week. Seems like the courts are the only solution left.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...zmq-story.html
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...zmq-story.html
01-31-2020, 03:34 PM
#3
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,082
02-02-2020, 11:21 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 414
Originally Posted by aaatwood
OK, Airbus ignores the problem as well. Doesn't mean we shouldn't fix it.
At what problem would that be, the design flaw they speak of?? Using bleed air to pressurize the cabin? Who ever came up with that stupid idea?
02-02-2020, 01:30 PM
#6
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,492
I read that during WWI a lot of the fighter plane engines (which generated all of 100hp) used castor oil as a lubricant. The exhaust from which would then hit the pilot in the face.
https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...4#rebelltitem4
not exactly toxic per se, but the $hits nonetheless.
https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...4#rebelltitem4
not exactly toxic per se, but the $hits nonetheless.
02-03-2020, 07:18 AM
#7
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,253
Originally Posted by Texasbound
At what problem would that be, the design flaw they speak of?? Using bleed air to pressurize the cabin? Who ever came up with that stupid idea?
In future designs cabin air will probably be produced by an electric pressurization/HVAC unit like the 787. Or at least will have some more robust filters.
02-03-2020, 12:09 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Jet-turbine oil contains Tri-Cresyl Phosphate as a stabilizing additive. The problem: it acts like other organophosphates....it’s a nerve-agent.
If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.
The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.
But it may be there is no other alternative.
If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.
The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.
But it may be there is no other alternative.
02-03-2020, 01:10 PM
#9
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,253
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
Jet-turbine oil contains Tri-Cresyl Phosphate as a stabilizing additive. The problem: it acts like other organophosphates....it’s a nerve-agent.
If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.
The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.
But it may be there is no other alternative.
If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.
The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.
But it may be there is no other alternative.
Getting rid of certain additives might be good, but honestly I don't want to breath ANY complex hydrocarbons (especially after they've been cooked). I believe filters are a viable option, but they would expensive and heavy enough enough that it would take regulatory intervention to get them into widespread use (like fuel tank inerting retro-fits).
02-03-2020, 04:09 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Turbocompressors
The B-707 used a turbocompressor for A/C (the small inlet above the cowl). It was driven by 16th stage bleed air, but provided outside air instead of bleed air to the cabin.
https://images.app.goo.gl/RXxmeprqwmwK2nYz9
https://images.app.goo.gl/RXxmeprqwmwK2nYz9
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