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-   -   Asiana 747 descends to low on approach (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/128914-asiana-747-descends-low-approach.html)

AirBear 04-09-2020 11:53 AM

Asiana 747 descends to low on approach
 
https://simpleflying.com/asiana-hong-kong-low-approach/

You'd think the crew might notice something was wrong when you're 800AGL 4 miles from the runway.

John Carr 04-09-2020 12:05 PM

Did CA Wi Tu Lo transition to the 74?

sigler 04-09-2020 12:31 PM


Originally Posted by AirBear (Post 3028097)
https://simpleflying.com/asiana-hong-kong-low-approach/

You'd think the crew might notice something was wrong when you're 800AGL 4 miles from the runway.

How about 800’ AGL 7 miles from the runway??

https://avherald.com/h?article=4d1e782d&opt=0

32Drvr 04-09-2020 02:04 PM

Always, ALWAYS check the glide slope crossing altitude.

AirBear 04-09-2020 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by 32Drvr (Post 3028170)
Always, ALWAYS check the glide slope crossing altitude.

That and do 3 to 1 ratio in your head. Doing no-flap approaches in the Sim they used to prohibit using any vertical guidance like a glideslope so we just briefed and did the 300AGL/1NM ratio.

PerfInit 04-09-2020 07:22 PM

And study your systems! Know when the A/Ts will “wake up” from the Arm mode; know when they will and will not provide Alpha Floor protection.

Adlerdriver 04-10-2020 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by PerfInit (Post 3028431)
And study your systems! Know when the A/Ts will “wake up” from the Arm mode; know when they will and will not provide Alpha Floor protection.

Sure. You could get all smart on that stuff. No harm in that. But, how about a novel idea: Maybe just fly the aircraft using stick (yoke), rudder and throttles like a pilot. When autothrottles "wake up" or provide "alpha floor" is just a BS crutch needed by someone who is dependent on automation. If you're on approach and waiting for what the throttles should be doing based on your systems knowledge, you're probably behind. Either turn them off regularly enough so you don't depend on them or have your hands on them and monitor your airspeed as if they're off, making manual adjustments as necessary. Then when they're going to wake up doesn't matter because your a pilot again.

rickair7777 04-10-2020 06:46 AM


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 3028622)
Sure. You could get all smart on that stuff. No harm in that. But, how about a novel idea: Maybe just fly the aircraft using stick (yoke), rudder and throttles like a pilot. When autothrottles "wake up" or provide "alpha floor" is just a BS crutch needed by someone who is dependent on automation. If you're on approach and waiting for what the throttles should be doing based on your systems knowledge, you're probably behind. Either turn them off regularly enough so you don't depend on them or have your hands on them and monitor your airspeed as if they're off, making manual adjustments as necessary. Then when they're going to wake up doesn't matter because your a pilot again.

At some foriegn airlines hand-flying an ILS would get you in more FOQA trouble than getting low on the GS. Hand-flying is an intentional disregard for safety.

Adlerdriver 04-10-2020 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3028659)
Hand-flying is an intentional disregard for safety.

You can't actually believe this, right? Are you just repeating the stupidity that is the source of the problem in the first place at foreign airlines.

Either way. I was responding to Perfinit who clearly was preaching to the majority here. That happens to be US pilots. So, I really don't care what asinine, CYA, "we hope the automation makes up for the deficiency in skill of our pilots" policy might be in effect at foreign airline X. My point stands when made in the company of the usual suspects here on APC.

rickair7777 04-10-2020 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by Adlerdriver (Post 3028678)
You can't actually believe this, right? Are you just repeating the stupidity that is the source of the problem in the first place at foreign airlines.

Of course I don't believe that, you should know better by now.

But some foriegn airlines sure believe it, and who knows if they never practice (not allowed to) maybe hand-flying is pretty dangerous for them.


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