AirBear

It'll be interesting to see the experience level and record of the pilots. On another forum someone who's flown the CL-605 said it's really hard to stall it. The numbers I posted above could be ambiguous, the speed might have been ground speed which with that density altitude it could be quite a bit higher than IAS. And the 300AGL could have been down sloping terrain, not AGL above the airport. Every operation I flew for had stabilized approach criteria that said when visual you needed to be on glideslope, no more than 10kts over ref, and engines spooled up by 500ft above the airport elevation. I don't think they met that or were even close, but then they were flying Part 91.

I wonder if they'd hit that school bus and killed a bunch of kids if anyone would still be willing to write liability insurance for business type aircraft. There's a push to get AQP for Part 135, that might help. I'd like to see insurance companies put the pilots for their insured aircraft under a magnifying glass before something bad happens. I know when I signed up to do some part time flying on a locally based Hawker 400XP I had to fill out a lot of info for the aircraft's insurer.

OscarRomeo

I saw on another page the PIC had a fresh type rating and the SIC was a FSI instructor with approx 4,500 in type plus another 10,000 hours of other stuff including aerobatics. I would guess the guy with the fresh type was flying and is probably coming from a more forgiving aircraft.

I believe they had a tailwind on base coupled with a 7,000+ DA, so if their ground speed was 139 their IAS would have been quite slow.

USMCFLYR

The one pilot who has been identified (assumed PM) was quite an accomplished pilot:

"If you have heard about the Challenger CL600 crash in Truckee this week, that was relocated SAN QB Bret Ebaugh (QB 39380). Many of you might remember Bret before he moved up to Lakeville, MN. He was Type Rated on Boeing 757/767, Bombardier CL604/605/650, CL65, Dornier 328, and Embraer 170/190 aircraft. He also acted as Director of Operations and Chief Pilot for California Pacific Airlines and was a Manager of Flight Standards, Check Airman and Aircrew Designated Examiner for PSA Airlines. He was involved with the Boy Scouts and the Commemorative Air Force, out at Gillespie."

trip

Circling from 20 to 11. Lots of wildfire smoke and some thunderstorms in the area.

rickair7777

That's another way DA can get you, aside from the usual power/performance degradation.

rickair7777

CL-65 is somewhat hard to stall, for having no leading edges. I'm aware of a couple FOQA cases where the numbers said it should have stalled, but somehow didn't. Don't if any know if that would apply to the 605.

galaxy flyer

I have 1,000 hours in them, it’s just as hard to stall as any other airplane. It has a shaker and a pusher, too. Abuse it and it bites back.

Hawkerdriver1

This occurence just sucks.

It reminds me of another crash that occured there during a circle:

Lear 35A

Which reminds me of another crash that occured during a circle in Palwaukee:

Lear 35A

Which reminds me of another crash that occured during a circle in Teterborough:

Lear 35A

AirBear

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ource=hs_email

If the company that operated that 605 is still in business I bet they won't be for long. Massive pilot error by the Captain and no CRM. The F/O repeatedly asked for the controls and the PIC didn't respond or declined.
The accident is pretty much what the ADS-B data showed, we just didn't know why they did that. Now we do.

Fifi

Where is this “Teterborough” you speak of?