2019-AA A321 wing strike departing JFK
07-28-2022, 12:03 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
I flew with that captain on many occasions when I was an FO. He was most definitely NOT one who slipped through the cracks. Yes, he (and many others hired around the time he was hired at Legacy AA) was forced to spend nearly twenty years in the right seat before finally upgrading, but that right seat time had no effect on his flying ability and command ability. He was excellent in both arenas. He was a good stick, and an excellent captain. I never saw anything from him that made me question his abilities in some way or another.
Why he grabbed so much left rudder as he was about to rotate is a mystery, though. Absolutely a screw up, and he had no idea he'd done it to himself.
I ran into him during a layover one evening maybe five to six months after it had happened and had a discussion with him about this, and asked him if he knew he'd hit the sign and the ground. He said neither of them knew they'd hit anything and the airplane absolutely flew normally during climbout. It wasn't until the FA showed him the picture that the passenger had taken that they had any inkling they'd hit anything at all. He remarked to me how the fbw system completely masked the damage.
So is he losing it, or did he just make some really bad mistake in the moment? Who knows?
Why he grabbed so much left rudder as he was about to rotate is a mystery, though. Absolutely a screw up, and he had no idea he'd done it to himself.
I ran into him during a layover one evening maybe five to six months after it had happened and had a discussion with him about this, and asked him if he knew he'd hit the sign and the ground. He said neither of them knew they'd hit anything and the airplane absolutely flew normally during climbout. It wasn't until the FA showed him the picture that the passenger had taken that they had any inkling they'd hit anything at all. He remarked to me how the fbw system completely masked the damage.
So is he losing it, or did he just make some really bad mistake in the moment? Who knows?
07-29-2022, 02:45 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,906
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
Two 58 year olds scraped a wing and almost cartwheeled an A320 on takeoff because of poor crosswind control, and were hanging onto the tail of the plane trying to figure out what happened. But by all means, let's raise the retirement age.
07-29-2022, 06:03 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,347
Originally Posted by 450knotOffice
I flew with that captain on many occasions when I was an FO. He was most definitely NOT one who slipped through the cracks. Yes, he (and many others hired around the time he was hired at Legacy AA) was forced to spend nearly twenty years in the right seat before finally upgrading, but that right seat time had no effect on his flying ability and command ability. He was excellent in both arenas. He was a good stick, and an excellent captain. I never saw anything from him that made me question his abilities in some way or another.
Why he grabbed so much left rudder as he was about to rotate is a mystery, though. Absolutely a screw up, and he had no idea he'd done it to himself.
I ran into him during a layover one evening maybe five to six months after it had happened and had a discussion with him about this, and asked him if he knew he'd hit the sign and the ground. He said neither of them knew they'd hit anything and the airplane absolutely flew normally during climbout. It wasn't until the FA showed him the picture that the passenger had taken that they had any inkling they'd hit anything at all. He remarked to me how the fbw system completely masked the damage.
So is he losing it, or did he just make some really bad mistake in the moment? Who knows?
Why he grabbed so much left rudder as he was about to rotate is a mystery, though. Absolutely a screw up, and he had no idea he'd done it to himself.
I ran into him during a layover one evening maybe five to six months after it had happened and had a discussion with him about this, and asked him if he knew he'd hit the sign and the ground. He said neither of them knew they'd hit anything and the airplane absolutely flew normally during climbout. It wasn't until the FA showed him the picture that the passenger had taken that they had any inkling they'd hit anything at all. He remarked to me how the fbw system completely masked the damage.
So is he losing it, or did he just make some really bad mistake in the moment? Who knows?
58 is pretty young to be losing it. In a previous life I flew with a number of 65-70yo retirees in an expat gig. Some were razor sharp. The guys that were losing it were tough to watch because they'd be rock solid in all areas then just do something sort of bizarrely erratic. Worse they would sometimes catch themselves doing it, and you'd see some pretty depressing realizations cross their minds.
I think the information we have about this event isn’t sufficient to say whether age, fatigue or whatever played a role or not. Moreover most of our speculation around age is probably centered on news events today than the details of this event. So perhaps we're viewing this thing, as lay observers, through colored glass?
10-18-2022, 12:46 PM
#35
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: Home
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I see they focused on rudder trim and the jet appears in the FDR to have had 8 or 10 degrees left rudder trim for takeoff. On the A330 rudder trim is checked by the takeoff config warning. Is that not the case on the A320?
And yes, per the Vol2 the rudder trim is monitored by the takeoff config system, and it would have triggered on both the Config Test and thrust lever application.
Here is an interesting commentary about the incident -
AA300 A321 JFK
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