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Old 07-25-2010, 02:55 AM   #1  
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Default Beechcraft T6 Texan II accident

Any input from Texan II pilots on this ?

From the Aviation Safety Network web site:

Israeli T6 Texan turboprop trainer swerves on landing, student ejects ! First solo flight.

ASN Aircraft accident 15-JUL-2010 Beechcraft T-6 Texan II

Quote from report: "She pulled the eject lever and launched her parachute"

Female air cadet injured after ejecting - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Quote from report: IAF officials said the cadet acted according to emergency procedure. The aircraft was on the ground when the cadet ejected and it stopped shortly afterward, incurring extensive damage but is likely to be returned to service after repairs.

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Last edited by cub pilot; 07-25-2010 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:49 AM   #2  
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Any input from Texan II pilots on this ?

From the Aviation Safety Network web site:

Israeli T6 Texan turboprop trainer swerves on landing, student ejects ! First solo flight.

ASN Aircraft accident 15-JUL-2010 Beechcraft T-6 Texan II

Quote from report: "She pulled the eject lever and launched her parachute"

Female air cadet injured after ejecting - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Quote from report: IAF officials said the cadet acted according to emergency procedure. The aircraft was on the ground when the cadet ejected and it stopped shortly afterward, incurring extensive damage but is likely to be returned to service after repairs.

Cub
Never flew the T-6, but if i'm above a taxi speed and about to depart the prepared surface, I'm punching. The Tweet was the only plane I would have stayed with it, on the count of seat sucking and it being a tank!
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:14 AM   #3  
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:14 AM   #4  
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Never flew the T-6, but if i'm above a taxi speed and about to depart the prepared surface, I'm punching. The Tweet was the only plane I would have stayed with it, on the count of seat sucking and it being a tank!
In most fighters, for sure, but I wouldn't go that far with something like the T-6. Aussies spec'd their PC-9 version to be able to land on grass. One of the USAF departures at high-speed (for a T-6) a few years back jumped a berm, nosed into the ground, and the crew walked. If you're going to flip or hit something big, maybe, but if we're talking a straight run into flat grass at something under highway speeds, it's a bit extreme. I'll bet the risk of riser burn, cuts from the canopy fracture, and messed up ankle/leg from a poor PLF outweighs the bumps you might get in a runway excursion.

But with a MB seat under you, when in doubt, get out. If you're in the envelope, you're going to live.

BTW, a solo student went off the end of the RWY at Vance earlier this year and punched also. Airplane rolled into the grass a couple hundred feet and stopped.

Pretty good seat, though - it's been ops tested at 0/0, or 0/slow quite a few times. The two times mentioned above, plus the RND guy in the EOR, and a SP in the chocks up at Moose Jaw. T-38s are finally getting MBs also... finally.
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Old 07-25-2010, 06:20 AM   #5  
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But with a MB seat under you, when in doubt, get out.
Reminds me of the saying from the F-14A community: "If the engines say Pratt and Whitney, the seats better say Martin Baker."
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:55 AM   #6  
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The book on the T-6 is if you're going to depart the prepared surface, punch out. The T-6 is top heavy, and unlike the T-37 which could go off -roading and stay upright, the fear is that the T-6 would be prone to flip over and trap the pilot.
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:40 AM   #7  
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The book on the T-6 is if you're going to depart the prepared surface, punch out. The T-6 is top heavy, and unlike the T-37 which could go off -roading and stay upright, the fear is that the T-6 would be prone to flip over and trap the pilot.
The book answer is about to change, hopefully very soon, based on a reassessment. There is nothing to support the flip/trap tendency tale, and in fact there is much to support the obvious. The way that the canopy entrapment warnings (also unsupportable by either analysis or experience) got into the Dash-1 is a comedy of epic proportions.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:36 PM   #8  
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One of the USAF departures at high-speed (for a T-6) a few years back jumped a berm, nosed into the ground, and the crew walked. If you're going to flip or hit something big, maybe, but if we're talking a straight run into flat grass at something under highway speeds, it's a bit extreme.
Sounds like they were very lucky. I don't doubt the T-6 is capable of handling grass, but you just never know if there is a hole out there that your gear will inevitably find.

Had a sim instructor tell me a story of him going offroading in a THUD in Vietnam. Was riding along in the back to get experience up north and had to divert for battle damage. They took the midfield cable (by accident, weren't familiar with F4 bases having a mid field cable) at very high speed, which ripped the tail hook off. Went off the runway, the nose broke off at the front cockpit killing the pilot, leaving the him there with his feet dangling out the front of the jet, where the cockpit divider used to be.....that was enough to make my decision for me.

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I'll bet the risk of riser burn, cuts from the canopy fracture, and messed up ankle/leg from a poor PLF outweighs the bumps you might get in a runway excursion.
I'm not willing to make that bet!

Quote:
But with a MB or ACES II seat under you, when in doubt, get out. If you're in the envelope, you're going to live.
Corrected that for ya!

Quote:
BTW, a solo student went off the end of the RWY at Vance earlier this year and punched also. Airplane rolled into the grass a couple hundred feet and stopped.
Which may happen 9 times out of 10, but with my luck I would be that 10% statistic. I guess I tend to think worst case on this situation. I would hate to be stuck upside down, and on fire, wishing I had my 9mm with me...

BTW, read that report...pretty interesting.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:40 PM   #9  
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T-38s are finally getting MBs also... finally.
But until that happens, the data tends to support staying with the aircraft as it departs the runway. Not always the case, but most of the time...
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Old 07-25-2010, 03:44 PM   #10  
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The awesome thing about ejection criteria in the T-6 (probably any aircraft, but I can't comment) is that it's 'technique only.' My T6 ejection decision varied with the day. If the ground was rain soaked, I'd have punched if I was above taxi speed.

Otherwise, I'd have taken the advice that if I can read an airspeed, I'm going. That's 40+ knots.

I've heard varying theories about how good the CFS is and how the laser beams still work even while you're off-roading, but I'd rather punch. You get an awesome story, a tie, and you join an exclusive club. Plus, they fly you first class to their factory, right? Slight sarcasm. You may get to keep the seat too?

Wuzzo: Maybe the CFS warning is in the -1 for liability mitigation? If a crew elects to not punch and then burns because CFS fails.... Beechcraft can say "I told ya so."
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