990Convair

Looks like the MD had no trace of onboard fire prior to landing and that initial reports are a hard landing followed by nose gear failure.

Lufthansa Cargo MD-11 Crash Raises Issues | AVIATION WEEK

FR8Hauler

The Mad Dog is on its last gasps I am afraid to say...Be gone sooner than later is my somewhat educated guess. It is a sticky booger for the insurance companies.

wldplt

I see some speculation (F/O's MD-11 experience level based on an irrelevant quote about how F/O's in the Lufthansa system come up through narrow body aircraft) and some misinformation (comment about the MD-11 flying with an aft CG, which only occurs during cruise) in this article which surprises me coming from AWST. Personally, I'll wait for the accident report to come out before consigning the Mad Dog 11 to the scrap heap.

md11retiree

I loved flying the MD11 for twelve years and yes, you do get the occasional firm landing. Obviously, you get worse if you don't stay completely focused throughout the landing regime. Here's a question: could've all/most of the MD11 landing accidents been avoided if the landing gear was designed similar to the 747 or A330 trucks (four main trucks, consisting of two body gear and two wing gear)? I've heard 747 pilots consistently praise the landing performance of their jet and not the same from the MD11 crews. What's your opinion about the gear structure?

MD11

A change in gear design from the 10-30 config would have required a complete structural change in the fuselage structure negating the savings of introducing a new design based upon an old airframe. Remember the biggest aerodynamic change from the 10's to the 11's was the 30% reduction of the horiz stab. Higher than normal approach angles due to inaccurate wgts, could cause the horiz stab to be near its max aoa/push down force during landing. Add the final flare with a bit of wing aero shadowing and you don't get a tail stall but instead an instant reduction in push down resulting in a dramatic pitch over. The rebound after striking the nose gear starts a somewhat uncontrollable situation. I believe when fully configured and on vref, the pfd shouldn't be more than 7 degrees. If so, the aircraft was telling you that it was heavier than the fms calculations. The fms calc could be inaccurate due to the weight declared by the loaders.
I was involved(technically) in repairing structural damage to an -11 after a landing, nose rebound incident. In working with Boeing, whenever questions were asked about the stab, fuzzy non-answers were given. They really didn't want to talk about it.

wldplt

The question you're replying to was about the gear design on the -11, not the horizontal stab. Your scenario for a nose gear strike presupposes a situation where the aircraft is substantially heavier than advertised. I've worked the Lufthansa contract and I can assure you that if there is any freight operator in the world who would be least likely to make that mistake it is Lufthansa. Also, if you're grossly over planned weight you will get a heads up long before the approach in the form of increased fuel burn and inability to climb to your planned cruising altitude.

Flightmech

I don't think the structural integrity of the nose gear on the MD-11 is an issue. If you look at the post-accident pictures of our own FDX80 in NRT the nose gear still appears to be down and locked even though the wheel rims have sheared off. It certainly survived a big impact. Now the main gears is another issue.......

MD11

I realize the original question was regarding the gear design... I offered information based upon experience on this airframe. I don't believe the gear has anything to do with the multitude of landing accidents.

Personal experience... HKG ramp folks have loaded cans heavier than documented.

wldplt

The flight originated in Frankfurt.

MD11

Forgive me if I made it sound as though the accident aircraft originated from HKG... that was not my intention. On one occasion we proved an overweight condition after arrival (a/c departed HKG). Just an example that people make mistakes but not necessarily always from HKG.